3-Year Ministry Timeline of Jesus

[Ulan]

Sorry some mythicist remind me of exactly how I argued before the professors got a hold of me, when I was a mythicst. [very short period of time]

Oh, you still are a mythicist of sorts. It's rather funny actually. You called me a mythicist several times in this thread, although I did not write a single thing that suggests such in the whole thread (one of several baseless accusations from your side I may add). And all that because I pointed a finger at that little fantasy you spun about Jesus sitting at the feet of John the Baptist for years and learning his parables from the latter. "It can be considered a certainty he did such. many claim this as a fact as much as a historical even can be considered such", to quote you. So much faith!

It's rather ironic to be called a mythicist for not swallowing your little invented tale without question.

[outhouse]

And all that because I pointed a finger at that little fantasy you spun about Jesus sitting at the feet of John the Baptist for years and learning his parables from the latter.

.

Based on evidence at the most current academic understanding.

Jesus came from a family that were known as displaced renters who lived life below that of typical peasants, and had fishermen followers who were also known as a wrung below the typical peasant.

With that said we do not know how much NT text or parables came from a jesus character or were just Johns teachings regurgitated, or typical Galilean parables people attributed to him or the concept.

We do know he was supposed to be baptized by John which does make him a student of Johns. How long he was a student is unknown. But if he was a peasant odd job day laborer in a small agrarian satellite community for Sepphoris, his teachings had to come from somewhere. And the most current traditions that are historical is that he had followers of John after Johns death. We have a 1 to 3 year window he taught directly after Johns death. They both taught apocalyptic Aramaic Judaism, and the main difference of what we know is that Jesus took his show on the road, which can be explained as not wanting is head cut off like John, by drawing large crowds catching Herods eye. Both died for what they believed in.

[Ulan]

I know all of this. The issue is that you freely mix evidence and points generally accepted as historical by most NT scholars with guesswork spun from the gospel texts, and then go ahead and say this guesswork has "complete historicity" and a status near fact. I was criticizing your muddling of evidence and assumptions.

But given you seem to avoid the point I made like the plague, we will have to keep it at that. Just don't accuse others of making the fumbles you make yourself.

[Clive]

May we look at the wedding in Cana? It might have been his wedding. The use of Hera's wine trick is fascinating as it is the sort of thing the very elite of society would do.

So what is the class of this Jesus? He could actually be a senior eunuch slave in a very wealthy household possibly of the groom, or the groom. Not a lower class lad helping with some labouring.

But are these all not classic scenes from life, as would be found in plays?

[Bernard Muller]

to outhouse,

Jesus came from a family that were known as displaced renters who lived life below that of typical peasants, and had fishermen followers who were also known as a wrung below the typical peasant.

OK

With that said we do not know how much NT text or parables came from a jesus character or were just Johns teachings regurgitated, or typical Galilean parables people attributed to him or the concept.

Jesus was not much of a teacher and his alleged parables first came from the mind of "Mark", for the edification of his gospel Christian audience.

We do know he was supposed to be baptized by John which does make him a student of Johns.

Even if Jesus was baptized by John, that does not make him a student of John (however I think he stayed around John, with others, for a few months).

How long he was a student is unknown.

But certainly not years as you suggested on this thread.

But if he was a peasant odd job day laborer in a small agrarian satellite community for Sepphoris,

Nazareth cannot be considered a satellite community of Sepphoris because of the distance and the ridge in between. 6.5 kms was a long distance for people travelling on foot (as most did in these days). However the fortified town of Japha was very much closer, anyway close enough for Nazareth to be considered one of its small agrarian satellite communities.

his teachings had to come from somewhere.

Jesus was not a teacher. He was known mostly for his alleged healing and parroting John's main apocalyptic message with some add-ons.

And the most current traditions that are historical is that he had followers of John after Johns death.

Partly true.

We have a 1 to 3 year window he taught directly after Johns death. They both taught apocalyptic Aramaic Judaism, and the main difference of what we know is that Jesus took his show on the road

A bit less than one year, a flash in the pan, but not as a teacher. How could he have been considered that if he was uneducated?
I have serious doubt about the itinerant thing, likely another creation of "Mark".

Scholars tend to hang on this "teacher" thing as if that was glued to them. I think scholars want to treat Jesus as one of them, so that allows them to claim they are the only ones who can "study" his alleged teachings at length, forever (but with plenty of different interpretations!).
Even if more & more scholars now accept they are dealing with a non educated peasant, they still keep him as a great teacher, with a whole repertoire drawn from the gospels. This is rather inconsistent.

Needless to say, I justified all of that on my website.

Cordially, Bernard

[Bernard Muller]

May we look at the wedding in Cana? It might have been his wedding. The use of Hera's wine trick is fascinating as it is the sort of thing the very elite of society would do.

Very few critical scholars would consider that wedding as being not fiction from gJohn (the only gospel where it appears). And yes, it is undeniable there is a connection about that Jesus' alleged miracle (water into wine) and Greek mythological stories.
I noted in http://historical-jesus.info/jnorig.html
>> Dionysus?
According to Pausanias (115-180), the priests of Dionysus, at the temple of Elis, placed three empty large cauldrons in a sealed room and found them filled with wine on the next day. Jesus would outperform Dionysus' priests on two fronts: number (six to three) and time (immediately to one day)! <<

Cordially, Bernard

[MrMacSon]

We do know he was supposed to be baptized by John which does make him a student of Johns.

Even if Jesus was baptized by John, that does not make him a student of John (however I think he stayed around John, with others, for a few months).

According to Luke 1 Jesus & John were related - their mothers were cousins.

[Bernard Muller]

According to Luke 1 Jesus & John were related - their mothers were cousins.

So what?

Cordially, Bernard

[Adam]

And all that because I pointed a finger at that little fantasy you spun about Jesus sitting at the feet of John the Baptist for years and learning his parables from the latter.

Based on evidence at the most current academic understanding.

Turns out to be true. At least per James H. Charlesworth in "A Review of Darrell L. Bock and Robert Webb (eds.), Key Events in the Life of the Historical Jesus", pp. 203-223 in Journal for the Study of the Historical Jesus, 2013 (3). At page 207:
"The Evangelist Mark correctly indicated that John's baptism of Jesus was most likely the key event in Jesus' life. Our sources indicate that, when Jesus was with John (Jn. 1.29-37), he felt empowered by God and received a revelation that sustained his conviction and confidence. The historical reliability of this event is indicated by multiple attestations. Jesus' baptism by John is also apparent since John's followers seem to have claimed that a superior person is the one who baptizes, thus forcing Luke to place John in prison prior to Jesus' baptism (Lk. 3.20-21). Two movements continued in somewhat parallel ways as John's disciples and Jesus's disciples developed conflicting directions that sporadically defined key events for Jesus (Jn 1.37; 3.22-25; Mk 2.18; Acts 19.1-7). The pivotal nature of this event--Jesus' climactic moment with the Baptizer--was also underscored when Jesus' authority was questioned in the Temple by Judean leaders. Jesus replied by asking if John's baptism was by heaven's authority or of human origin (Mk 11.30; Mt 21.25; Lk 20.4). Jesus, thus, linked his authority to his time with the Baptizer and presumably with his authoritative heavenly power he received then (even if some Evangelists wished to remove the Baptizer from Jesus' baptism)."
Charlesworth continues: "If one understands a 'teacher' as one who influences persons, mentoring and educating them, then the Baptizer was Jesus' teacher. John taught Jesus about the importance of the time (the latter days), the judgment coming, the need for committing all to ?God and the theological importance of apocalyptic eschatology. We know of no one else who so influenced Jesus as mentor; but, of course, those events also allow one to conclude that God was Jesus' supreme teacher and his beloved Father." note 11
11 ...J. P. Meier in ...Vol II of A Marginal Jew, New York, Doubleday, 1994 pp 100-233 Also see R. L. Webb to be published 2014.

[Adam]

Also of more general interest in the same review article by Charlesworth (above):
On historicity:
p. 211 note 19, after discussion of same, in which he participated in the dig: "I eagerly await the official publication of the discovery of this pfd-70 synagogue in Migdal."
At page 209: "Jesus certainly chose 'the Twelve', since after his betrayal by Judas, none of Jesus' followers would 210 have
included Judas in the list...the Evangelists were only vaguely interested in such details..." This would even serve my purposes to support my Thesis of eyewitnesses writing the gospel sources even during Jesus' lifetime.
On the other hand, Charlesworth is quite critical of the limitations of the book under review for not dealing with Frist Century known background such as Essenes, Enoch groups, and the Herodians. (p. 220-222)
From page 215: "The evidence that Herod's followers considered him 'Christ' is not well known and deserves brief highlighting with three reports. First, according to Pseudo-Tertullian (ca. 160-225 CE), the Herodians claimed that Herod the Great was the Christ. Second, Epiphanius of Salamis (ca. 315-403) reported the Herodians believed: 'that Herod was Christ....the Christ awaited in all scriptures of the Law and prophest was Herod himself.' (Panarion 1.201-2) Third, Jerome (ca. 342-420) in his Commentary on Matthew stated that the Herodians were those who 'believed that Herod was the Christ' and in his Altercation Luciferiani contended that the Herodians accepted King Herod as if he were the Christ."