3-Year Ministry Timeline of Jesus

[Secret Alias]

For instance why can't it be true that:

1. the religion of the Torah was established by groveling ass-kissers like Ezra in the Persian period
2. after years of bending over and licking the assholes of the Persians they learned Greek and licked the assholes of the Hellenistic rulers
3. the separatists (= Pharisees) represent a wholly separate tradition which falsely imagined that Judaism developed from anything other than ass-kissing and ass-licking

In other words, the Sadducees preserved 'true Judaism' because 'Zadokites' existed and spoke Farsi in the Persian period and their descendants spoke Greek in the Hellenistic period. You aren't going to get this sort of bare analysis from scholars of Judaism because most of them (whether Jews or Christian) grew up believing that there is 'something special' about the Torah or at least that it developed from something grand and beautiful rather than ass-kissing and ass-licking.

[Secret Alias]

And remember further more that the Jewish sources tell us that in the period when the Temple was functioning there existed a tradition which said that only the Ten Commandments came from God. This position developed from the Sadducees interpretation of the word 'Torah' in the Pentateuch (= that it was limited to just the Ten Commandments) and formalized aspects of the religion which reinforced only the heavenly origin of the ten commandments. This again point to the Sadducees being the preservers of the earliest form of Judaism and something very closely aligned with Samaritanism. The Qumran texts also reinforce that. The facts that they spoke Greek fluently doesn't mean that they 'abandoned' the true or original traditions associated with the Pentateuch. Rather the Pharisees and other separatists more than likely represent a historical revaluation of traditional values simply because again ass-kissing foreign rulers is the bedrock of the Israelite religion. Note that there is no proscription for the raising of armies in the Pentateuch, no role for a king unless Moses is deemed to be that figure (but he is not explicitly so identified).

[Secret Alias]

And finally the one bit of 'authenticity' that we might associate with the Jewish separatists and the story of Exodus is that at bottom the Israelite religion was founded on a rebellion from authority (and presumably foreign rulers). But is that really a product of the religion of the Torah or simply the fact that the Jews were descendants of slaves who lived in a foreign land? In other words, the historical kernel (for lack of a better word) was compatible with the revolution of 66 CE not the religion that Ezra invented.

[Bernard Muller]

I think the example of Josephus, an aristocratic Jew who was raised in Jerusalem and lived there his early adulthood, show us the status of Greek in Jerusalem and also in all Jewish Palestine:

Ant., XX, XI, 2 "I have also taken a great deal of pains to obtain the learning of the Greeks, and understand the Greek language, although I have so long accustomed myself to speak our own tongue, that I cannot pronounce Greek with sufficient exactness; for our nation does not encourage those that learn the languages of many nations ..."

Preface of Antiquities, 2: "but in process of time, as usually happens to such as undertake great things, I grew weary and went on slowly, it being a large subject, and a difficult thing to translate our history into a foreign, and to us unaccustomed language [Greek]."

Wars, Preface, 1 "I have proposed to myself, for the sake of such as live under the government of the Romans, to translate those books into the Greek tongue, which I formerly composed in the language of our country" ('Wars' was first written by Josephus in Aramaic)

Against Apion, I, 9 "Afterward I got leisure in Rome [after 70C.E.]; and when all that material were prepared for that work ['Wars'], I made use of some persons to assist me in learning the Greek tongue ..."

That's strong evidence about the status of Greek in the upper class in Jerusalem.

Cordially, Bernard

[outhouse]

I think the example of Josephus, an aristocratic Jew who was raised in Jerusalem and lived there his early adulthood, show us the status of Greek in Jerusalem and also in all Jewish Palestine:

Ant., XX, XI, 2 "I have also taken a great deal of pains to obtain the learning of the Greeks, and understand the Greek language, although I have so long accustomed myself to speak our own tongue, that I cannot pronounce Greek with sufficient exactness; for our nation does not encourage those that learn the languages of many nations ..."

Preface of Antiquities, 2: "but in process of time, as usually happens to such as undertake great things, I grew weary and went on slowly, it being a large subject, and a difficult thing to translate our history into a foreign, and to us unaccustomed language [Greek]."

Wars, Preface, 1 "I have proposed to myself, for the sake of such as live under the government of the Romans, to translate those books into the Greek tongue, which I formerly composed in the language of our country" ('Wars' was first written by Josephus in Aramaic)

Against Apion, I, 9 "Afterward I got leisure in Rome [after 70C.E.]; and when all that material were prepared for that work ['Wars'], I made use of some persons to assist me in learning the Greek tongue ..."

That's strong evidence about the status of Greek in the upper class in Jerusalem.

Cordially, Bernard

Thank you for sources.

But to has nothing to do with Israelite Hellenization

You are providing evidence that helps me not you, because Josephus was about as Hellenized as they come.


http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jso ... 10345.html


JOSEPHUS FLAVIUS (c. 37–after 100 C.E.), Jewish historian and one of the chief representatives of Jewish-Hellenistic literature.




http://www.britannica.com/biography/Flavius-Josephus

Assessment.

As a historian, Josephus shares the faults of most ancient writers: his analyses are superficial, his chronology faulty, his facts exaggerated, his speeches contrived. He is especially tendentious when his own reputation is at stake. His Greek style, when it is truly his, does not earn for him the epithet “the Greek Livy” that often is attached to his name. Yet he unites in his person the traditions of Judaism and Hellenism, provides a connecting link between the secular world of Rome and the religious heritage of the Bible, and offers many insights into the mentality of subject peoples under the Roman Empire.

[Secret Alias]

But you outhouse routinely equate "Greek language" with acceptance of Hellenistic culture. You're just making up rule and distinctions to fit your own presuppositions

[Bernard Muller]

to outhouse,
While still in Jerusalem, Josephus did not know much Greek, if any. He learned it in Rome, after writing his first book in Aramaic. How can you say a Greek-less Josephus was Hellenized when still living in Palestine?

Cordially, Bernard

[outhouse]

How can you say a Greek-less Josephus was Hellenized when still living in Palestine?

Cordially, Bernard

Provide sources.

I have provided sources that state Jerusalem as well as Sadducees and well as Josephus, were Hellenized. You? nothing but Stephen on your side which by default means no credibility.

[outhouse]

You are uneducated please read.

https://getd.libs.uga.edu/pdfs/purtell_ ... 208_ma.pdf

THE HELLENIZATION OF JUDEA UNDER HEROD THE GREAT

STEVEN MATTHEW PURTELL
B.A., Hope College, 2002
M.Div. Duke University, 2006

[outhouse]

http://prophetess.lstc.edu/~rklein/Doc8/hengel.doc

That is a great read on how context is key when using Hellenism a culture, is used in and against Judaism a religion.