3-Year Ministry Timeline of Jesus

[Secret Alias]

Glad that you spent about three seconds to drop a link into this discussion without any words of explanation as to how or what the author says justifies your pontificating. So basically:

1. 'everything' you said in this thread is right

and

2. this link supports 'everything' you said in this thread

Glad that you cleared that up. Was worried you might learn to actually develop an aptitude for substantive argumentation.

[Bernard Muller]

to outhouse,

Bernard Muller wrote:

How can you say a Greek-less Josephus was Hellenized when still living in Palestine?

Provide sources.

I provided sources, from Josephus himself. Are you going to tell me that someone who did not learn Greek while in Jerusalem, was Hellenized there regardless?
Provide sources from antiquity (not opinions of modern authors) if you think otherwise.

I have provided sources that state Jerusalem as well as Sadducees and well as Josephus, were Hellenized.

What you call sources in the dropping of words like "Hellenized" and "Hellenistic" in some modern commentaries, with no evidence to justify them.
That's for Josephus & Sadducees.
For Jerusalem, I read your piece on Herod, and it looks that so-called Hellenization/Romanization of Jerusalem was rather only skin deep. For example, no mention of creating schools where people would learn Greek or of attracting Greek speaking people to live in the city. Mainly just new large buildings in the Greek/Roman style of the day, in part to please his boss. Maybe he wanted to go further, but we know what happened when he did: the golden eagle.

Cordially, Bernard

[MrMacSon]

http://prophetess.lstc.edu/~rklein/Doc8/hengel.doc

That is a great read on how context is key when using Hellenism a culture, is used in and against Judaism a religion.

That sentence doesn't make sense - as is par for your course.

[Secret Alias]

Hee hee hee

[MrMacSon]

https://getd.libs.uga.edu/pdfs/purtell_ ... 208_ma.pdf

THE HELLENIZATION OF JUDEA UNDER HEROD THE GREAT

STEVEN MATTHEW PURTELL
B.A., Hope College, 2002
M.Div. Duke University, 2006

A different source is detected in Antiquites of the Jews (though it may have been by Josephus)

Other incidents [p. 96]
Josephus records a number of other episodes in which Herod’s subjects feel as if he has shown a lack of respect for their religious sensibilities. What makes these different than the eagle is the speed with which these concerns were alleviated. Between his discussion of the execution of the Sons of Baba and his description of the drought of 25/24 BCE, Josephus inserted a special section in which he discusses Herod’s violation of Jewish ancestral customs.281 He specifically mentions his institution of quinquennial athletic games in Jerusalem in honor of Augustus and his construction of a theater in the city and an amphitheater on the plain.282 Josephus accuses Herod not only of “departing from the native customs” of the Jews, but also corrupting their traditional way of life.283

• 281 Schürer notes the abrupt narrative shift between AJ 15.266 and 15.299 and thus postulates that a different source was inserted in between these two sections. This source, which is rather hostile to Herod and criticizes him for his violation of Jewish ancestral rights, might be Josephus or another Jewish author. It is certainly not Nicolaus, who would not have criticized his patron in such a way.
  Schürer, Vermès and Millar, 'The History of the Jewish People in the Age of Jesus Christ (175 B.C.-A.D. 135)'. 290-291.
  
  282 AJ 15.268
  
  283 AJ 15.267-270, 274-275

[MrMacSon]

Why would Herod the Great seek to decrease the political influence of the Jerusalem Temple? First and foremost, Herod did so to
follow policy. By lowering the profile of the Temple as a political center, Herod was true to his masters, the Romans, who wanted to eliminate any political power from native temples, while allowing a religio-cultural one to remain. Herod’s practice of appointing weak, unimpressive men to the position of High Priest was also in keeping with Roman practices elsewhere. Lee Levine cites that “The subordination of the religious elite to the political leadership was a hallmark of Romanization.”230 Herod served his own purposes by weakening the high priesthood and in their weakness his office found strength.

https://getd.libs.uga.edu/pdfs/purtell_ ... 208_ma.pdf

Then

Another possible motivation was Herod’s fear of the Hasmonean lineage, as his Jewish lineage was regarded as suspect at best. Early in his reign he tried to capitalize on the Jews’ affinity for the Hasmoneans by marrying a Hasmonean descendant. Herod went so far as to claim to be of the Hasmonean line. This pretending came to a halt with the near-disaster of appointing Aristobulus as High Priest. Soon after that misstep, Herod killed any remaining Hasmonean heirs, including his wife, mother-in-law, and sons, for fear that the people might attempt to restore them to the throne.

[outhouse]

That sentence doesn't make sense - as is par for your course.

I guess I could spell it out for our less educated members


context is key

Hellenism a culture

Judaism a religion

[MrMacSon]

Another of Herod’s strategies for depoliticizing the Temple was to separate the political aspect of the Temple to emphasize the spiritual aspect through focusing on its religious and cultic activities. Herod used the Sanhedrin, a panel of priests and scribes, to hear all civil cases between Jewish citizens. The Sanhedrin met in the Temple complex. They heard the evidence and ruled on each case using the Torah and other written traditions to decide the cases. This served a two-fold purpose. First, it let the people see the laws of their ancestors enacted and interpreted. It was a religious practice and tradition to bring these cases in front of “judges.” In allowing the council to meet and decide cases, Herod allowed the citizens of Jerusalem to express their religion. Second,
the Sanhedrin kept the priests and scribes content. Priests and scribes made up a large part of the vocal opposition to Herod’s rule. By allowing the Sanhedrin to meet, Herod could placate at least a select elite group of those priests and scribes. While Herod was busy placating the native population, he also sought to endear himself to the Diaspora Jews, thus bolstering his case as being the King of every Jew.

https://getd.libs.uga.edu/pdfs/purtell_ ... 208_ma.pdf

[MrMacSon]

context is key

lol. Yes!

[outhouse]

Why would Herod the Great seek to decrease the political influence of the Jerusalem Temple? First and foremost, Herod did so to
follow policy. By lowering the profile of the Temple as a political center, Herod was true to his masters, the Romans, who wanted to eliminate any political power from native temples, while allowing a religio-cultural one to remain. Herod’s practice of appointing weak, unimpressive men to the position of High Priest was also in keeping with Roman practices elsewhere. Lee Levine cites that “The subordination of the religious elite to the political leadership was a hallmark of Romanization.”230 Herod served his own purposes by weakening the high priesthood and in their weakness his office found strength.

https://getd.libs.uga.edu/pdfs/purtell_ ... 208_ma.pdf

Then

Another possible motivation was Herod’s fear of the Hasmonean lineage, as his Jewish lineage was regarded as suspect at best. Early in his reign he tried to capitalize on the Jews’ affinity for the Hasmoneans by marrying a Hasmonean descendant. Herod went so far as to claim to be of the Hasmonean line. This pretending came to a halt with the near-disaster of appointing Aristobulus as High Priest. Soon after that misstep, Herod killed any remaining Hasmonean heirs, including his wife, mother-in-law, and sons, for fear that the people might attempt to restore them to the throne.

You are not clear in the point you are trying to make.


Either way it does not effect the status of first century Jerusalem and the temple cult as being Hellenized to a greater extent then the Aramaic Jewish sect known as Zealots associated with Galileans.

This all started with Bernard stating Jerusalem was not a Hellenistic city, and the Sadducees were not Hellenistic, as we were discussing the socioeconomic division between Hellenized Jews and Aramaic Galileans.