Temple?

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
John2
Posts: 4630
Joined: Fri May 16, 2014 4:42 pm

Re: Temple?

Post by John2 »

Outhouse,

Where did you get this information?
This is an example of what is credible.

In around 19 BCE, Herod the Great extended the Mount's natural plateau by enclosing the area with four massive retaining walls and filling the voids. This artificial expansion resulted in a large flat expanse which today forms the eastern section of the Old City of Jerusalem. The trapezium shaped platform measures 488 m along the west, 470 m along the east, 315 m along the north and 280 m along the south, giving a total area of approximately 150,000 m2 (37 acres).
You know in spite of all you gained, you still have to stand out in the pouring rain.
John2
Posts: 4630
Joined: Fri May 16, 2014 4:42 pm

Re: Temple?

Post by John2 »

Jospehus' description is also supported by Mark 13:1-2.
As Jesus was leaving the temple, one of his disciples said to him, “Look, Teacher! What massive stones! What magnificent buildings!” “Do you see all these great buildings?” replied Jesus. “Not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.”
You know in spite of all you gained, you still have to stand out in the pouring rain.
outhouse
Posts: 3577
Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 6:48 pm

Re: Temple?

Post by outhouse »

John2 wrote:Outhouse,

Where did you get this information?
^ Finkelstein, Horbury, Davies & Sturdy (1999), p. 43
outhouse
Posts: 3577
Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 6:48 pm

Re: Temple?

Post by outhouse »

What I would suggest John is looking for a credible source that states Hadrian is responsible for todays Temple Mount in the above dimensions Finkelstein states Herod is responsible for.
John2
Posts: 4630
Joined: Fri May 16, 2014 4:42 pm

Re: Temple?

Post by John2 »

There are at least four volumes by them that I can find on Google books, and only one of them is viewable, but not page 43. Since we're talking online, it would be nice if you could provide some links that are viewable online. In any event, I'm aware that there is a consensus that the Temple Mount was built by Herod. The Schiffman article you linked to, however, supports what Sagiv is saying, that the Temple Mount is larger today than Josephus and the Mishnah describe it.
You know in spite of all you gained, you still have to stand out in the pouring rain.
John2
Posts: 4630
Joined: Fri May 16, 2014 4:42 pm

Re: Temple?

Post by John2 »

Gorenberg discusses Sagiv's idea here, including his observation regarding the "water problem":
Take the water problem: The Romans brought water to the Temple via an aqueduct that descends at an even, stunningly engineered grade of 0.15 percent from pools twenty miles away. The remains of the aqueduct can still be seen. The Talmud says it provided the water for a ritual bath, at an elevated spot in the Temple compound, that the High Priest used ... The aqueduct is far too low for the purpose ... Sagiv's radical conclusion: Hadrian built the raised plaza of today, and it's both larger and higher than the square where the Temple stood ... Today's Temple Mount plaza is much larger than the area described by the Mishnah, and much bigger than anything built anywhere in the Roman Empire in Herod's time. But, he says, it fits the massive scale favored in the time of Hadrian [pg. 73-74]


https://books.google.com/books?id=B7HFa ... ud&f=false
You know in spite of all you gained, you still have to stand out in the pouring rain.
User avatar
MrMacSon
Posts: 9510
Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2013 3:45 pm

Re: Temple?

Post by MrMacSon »

Did Hadrian get the Jews to help build a new enlarged 'Temple Mount/plaza, with the Jews thinking they were going to get a new (third Jewish) temple, and then Hadrian reneging or being perceived to have reneged on an anticipated third Jewish Temple?
outhouse
Posts: 3577
Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 6:48 pm

Re: Temple?

Post by outhouse »

John2 wrote: "water problem":

We investigated this about 4-5 years ago with mrmacson [maybe] sending an email to Carrier asking specific questions I generated.


End result is that with Pilates aqueduct and the pools on site, there was enough water for half a million Passover pilgrims, with plenty left over

The aqueduct is far too low for the purpose ...
There are huge water storage basins cut in the bedrock below the temple, much of the aqueduct was made in pipe form so it could handle pressure from gravity. Many Roman aqueducts were made this way to handle valleys without having to build bridges.
outhouse
Posts: 3577
Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 6:48 pm

Re: Temple?

Post by outhouse »

John2 wrote:, it would be nice if you could provide some links that are viewable online. .

temple mount wiki
John2
Posts: 4630
Joined: Fri May 16, 2014 4:42 pm

Re: Temple?

Post by John2 »

MrMacSon wrote:

"Did Hadrian get the Jews to help build a new enlarged 'Temple Mount/plaza, with the Jews thinking they were going to get a new (third Jewish) temple, and then Hadrian reneging or being perceived to have reneged on an anticipated third Jewish Temple?"

Something like that is said to be mentioned in Genesis Rabbah 64.8.

https://books.google.com/books?id=pACJY ... le&f=false
You know in spite of all you gained, you still have to stand out in the pouring rain.
Post Reply