1 Timothy 5:18 and Luke 10:7

[gmx]

Thoughts about "Paul" (1 Timothy 5:18) referring to "the laborer is worthy of his wages" (Luke 10:7) as scripture? It either makes 1 Timothy exceptionally late or it equates Luke with scripture exceptionally early. Or are there better explanations? (use pictograms if necessary and/or ascii art).

[iskander]

Pay the wages on time .

Deut 24
14 You shall not withhold the wages of poor and needy labourers, whether other Israelites or aliens who reside in your land in one of your towns. 15You shall pay them their wages daily before sunset, because they are poor and their livelihood depends on them; otherwise they might cry to the LORD against you, and you would incur guilt.

Rashi---You shall not withhold the wages of a [poor or destitute] hired worker: But has this not already been written [in the verse, “You shall not withhold what is due your fellow [Jew]” (Lev. 19:13)]? However, this [negative commandment] is [repeated here] to [make one] transgress two negative commandments for [withholding the pay due] a destitute person: [First, here,] not to withhold the wages of a worker who is poor or destitute, and [secondly,] concerning [even] the well-to-do worker, one was already admonished (Lev. 19:13)],“You shall not [unjustly] withhold what is due your fellow [Jew, which includes the destitute as well].” - [B.M. 61a] [See Chavel and Yosef Hallel, who quote the Reggio edition, which is more correct.]

Lev 19
13 You shall not defraud your neighbour; you shall not steal; and you shall not keep for yourself the wages of a labourer until morning.

[John2]

iskander,

That makes sense since it paired with "Do not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain" (Dt. 25:4).

http://biblehub.com/1_timothy/5-18.htm

[iskander]

iskander,

That makes sense since it paired with "Do not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain" (Dt. 25:4).

http://biblehub.com/1_timothy/5-18.htm

Yes .

Kaufman writes:
The Religion of Israel
Yehazkel Kaufmann translated and abridged by Moshe Greenberg
Sefer Ve Sefel Publishing, Jerusalem, 2003
ISBN 9657287022
Page340


" The literature of the Torah takes its departure from the life of the people, but it contains a large idealistic and utopian element. Though it championed the weak and poor, it was not the law of the land; it was merely an edifying literature to which were joined some legal elements. The basic social laws of the Torah were essentially no more than moral sanctions and exhortations, as is clear from the fact that no penalties are prescribed for their violation. The Torah provided no real legal recourse for the oppressed...
There were many varieties of exploitation and expropriation, persecution and oppression. This provided the basis of the division between "righteous" and "wicked" in ancient Israel; in the Torah, prophets, wisdom and psalm literature the distinction is a socio-moral, not a religious one.
In the twilight of the northern kingdom, the social cleavage and the evils that it entailed grew more acute. Masses of people became impoverished, and the rift between ideal and reality became critical. Out of this rift, classical prophecy was born."



Classical prophecy was a political reaction.!!

[gmx]

Thanks iskander. Does anyone know whether the Greek of 1 Timothy 15:8 corresponds more closely with the Greek of Luke 10:17, or with the Greek of the verse in Deuteronomy?

[Ben C. Smith]

Does anyone know whether the Greek of 1 Timothy 5:8 corresponds more closely with the Greek of Luke 10:7, or with the Greek of the verse in Deuteronomy?

It is a perfect match for Luke 10.7:

1 Timothy 5.8: 8 λέγει γὰρ ἡ γραφή, βοῦν ἀλοῶντα οὐ φιμώσεις· καί, ἄξιος ὁ ἐργάτης τοῦ μισθοῦ αὐτοῦ.
Luke 10.7: 7 ...ἄξιος γὰρ ὁ ἐργάτης τοῦ μισθοῦ αὐτοῦ....
Deuteronomy 24.14-15: 14 οὐκ ἀπαδικήσεις μισθὸν πένητος καὶ ἐνδεοῦς ἐκ τῶν ἀδελφῶν σου ἢ ἐκ τῶν προσηλύτων τῶν ἐν ταῖς πόλεσίν σου. 15 αὐθημερὸν ἀποδώσεις τὸν μισθὸν αὐτοῦ οὐκ ἐπιδύσεται ὁ ἥλιος ἐπ᾽ αὐτῷ ὅτι πένης ἐστὶν καὶ ἐν αὐτῷ ἔχει τὴν ἐλπίδα καὶ οὐ καταβοήσεται κατὰ σοῦ πρὸς κύριον καὶ ἔσται ἐν σοὶ ἁμαρτία.

Both Luke 10.7 and 1 Timothy 5.8 are obviously thematically derived from Deuteronomy 24.14-15; they may be said to paraphrase those verses. But there is also obviously some kind of genetic relationship between the two of them, as well. Either 1 Timothy 5.8 is calling Luke 10.7 (or something like it) scripture or 1 Timothy 5.8 is paraphrasing scripture and Luke 10.7 later puts that paraphrase on Jesus' lips.

The Marcionite version apparently contained this statement, as well: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1765&start=10#p39316.

[andrewcriddle]

There is a parallel (not an exact one) in Matthew 10:10

no bag for your journey, or two tunics or sandals or a staff, for the laborer deserves his food.

This may suggest that it goes back to Q.

Andrew Criddle

[John2]

Paul cites Dt. 25:4 (the first part of 1 Tim. 5:18) and another OT reference about priests in 1 Cor. 9:7-14 in his argument that he deserves to be paid for his labors without mentioning Jesus or Luke, so it would be curious if the second part of 1 Tim. 5:18 goes back to a saying of Jesus and Paul doesn't mention it here.

"Who serves as a soldier at his own expense? Who plants a vineyard and does not eat its grapes? Who tends a flock and does not drink the milk? Do I say this merely on human authority? Doesn’t the Law say the same thing? For it is written in the Law of Moses: “Do not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain.” Is it about oxen that God is concerned? Surely he says this for us, doesn’t he? Yes, this was written for us, because whoever plows and threshes should be able to do so in the hope of sharing in the harvest. If we have sown spiritual seed among you, is it too much if we reap a material harvest from you? If others have this right of support from you, shouldn’t we have it all the more? ... Don’t you know that those who serve in the temple get their food from the temple, and that those who serve at the altar share in what is offered on the altar? In the same way, the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the gospel."

[NormanMcIlwain]

It is interesting to note that Luke was a close co-worker with Paul and assisted his ministry. He is mentioned in 2 Tim.4:11 as a loyal companion. The close correlation regarding the verses in question could indicate that Luke had already recorded the words of Christ in his Gospel and that Paul made use of it in his first letter to Timothy.

[gmx]

It is interesting to note that Luke was a close co-worker with Paul and assisted his ministry. He is mentioned in 2 Tim.4:11 as a loyal companion. The close correlation regarding the verses in question could indicate that Luke had already recorded the words of Christ in his Gospel and that Paul made use of it in his first letter to Timothy.

Might be possible for Luke and 1 Timothy to be contemporaneous, but many would doubt that the author of Luke-Acts was a companion of the "genuine Paul", or existed in the same timeframe