Hidden Jesus, Sleeping Devil

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
John2
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Re: Hidden Jesus, Sleeping Devil

Post by John2 »

I wonder if the description of Jesus as a "bond-servant" in Phlp. 2:7 refers to being Jewish and keeping the Torah and not that he was literally a slave, in the same sense that he refers to Jewish Christians as being enslaved to the Torah like in Gal 2:4:

"This matter arose because some false believers had infiltrated our ranks to spy on the freedom we have in Christ Jesus and to make us slaves."

Another translation gives it this sense:

"Even that question came up only because of some so-called Christians there--false ones, really--who were secretly brought in. They sneaked in to spy on us and take away the freedom we have in Christ Jesus. They wanted to enslave us and force us to follow their Jewish regulations."

Perhaps this is why Heb. 2:17 says, " Therefore, He had to be made like His brethren in all things ..."

And in Gal. 3:10-13 Pauls says, "For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse ... Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us..."

What other writings refer to Jesus as being a slave in a literal sense? Or maybe he just means servant of God?
You know in spite of all you gained, you still have to stand out in the pouring rain.
John2
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Re: Hidden Jesus, Sleeping Devil

Post by John2 »

No, it doesn't look like anyone thinks Jesus was literally a slave. It seems to mean servant of God and/or humanity. It just seemed curious to me and I'd never thought about it before. Carry on.
You know in spite of all you gained, you still have to stand out in the pouring rain.
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Ben C. Smith
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Re: Hidden Jesus, Sleeping Devil

Post by Ben C. Smith »

John2 wrote:What other writings refer to Jesus as being a slave in a literal sense? Or maybe he just means servant of God?
Well, I brought up the point that 1 Peter 2 associates Jesus' death with relations between masters and slaves rather than with relations between rulers and subjects. It is not a direct statement by any means; but it seems interesting in light of the other passages I adduced.
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John2
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Re: Hidden Jesus, Sleeping Devil

Post by John2 »

Hm. I reckon you mean 1 Peter 2:21 ("To this you [slaves] were called, because Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps"), and I will bear that in mind.

On another tangent, something else that stood out to me was 1 Peter 2:4-6:
As you come to him, the living Stone—rejected by humans but chosen by God and precious to him— you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. For in Scripture it says: “See, I lay a stone in Zion, a chosen and precious cornerstone, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame.”
This sounds similar to 1QS col. 8:
In the Council of the Community there shall be twelve men and three Priests, perfectly versed in all that is revealed of the Law, whose works shall be truth, righteousness, justice, loving kindness, and humility. They shall preserve the faith in the Land with steadfastness and meekness and shall atone for sin by the practice of justice and by suffering the sorrows of affliction. They shall walk with all men according to the standard of truth and the rule of the time.

When these are in Israel, the Council of the Community shall be established in truth. It shall be an Everlasting Plantation, a House of Holiness for Israel, an Assembly of Supreme Holiness for Aaron. They shall be witnesses to the truth at the judgement, and shall be the elect of Goodwill who shall atone for the Land and pay to the wicked their reward. It shall be that tried wall, that precious corner-stone, whose foundations shall neither rock nor sway in their place.

It shall be a Most Holy Dwelling for Aaron, with everlasting knowledge of the Covenant of justice, and shall offer up sweet fragrance. It shall be a House of Perfection and Truth in Israel that they may establish a Covenant according to the everlasting precepts. And they shall be an agreeable offering, atoning for the Land and determining the judgement of wickedness, and there shall be no more iniquity.
You know in spite of all you gained, you still have to stand out in the pouring rain.
John2
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Joined: Fri May 16, 2014 4:42 pm

Re: Hidden Jesus, Sleeping Devil

Post by John2 »

Hm, 1 Peter 2:25 also refers to Jesus as the "overseer" (or "guardian" or "bishop"), and an equivalent term is used in the DSS:

... there was at Qumran a functionary similar to the Hellenistic bishop, the mebaqqer, an etymological equivalent in Hebrew of "overseer."

https://books.google.com/books?id=kVqRa ... op&f=false
That term in fact means "overseer," just as episkopos does, and the mebaqqer was charged to do many of the same things that an episkopos was to do...

https://books.google.com/books?id=YS_d3 ... op&f=false
You know in spite of all you gained, you still have to stand out in the pouring rain.
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