The Gospels Were Not Published Until c.150

[Secret Alias]

In certain locations there were persecuted but there are signs that the Roman Church was not persecuted in the third century.

[Secret Alias]

I think Irenaeus was responsible for placing Christian texts (the canon, Justin Martyr and a few others) in the public libraries. This is how the orthodox texts became the definitive edition. Trobisch has been supportive of the general observation.

[Secret Alias]

When this edition of the Christian Bible was made public all the other editions could be accused of willful forgeries bent on diminishing or denying the divine monarchy. This is why it was so important for Irenaeus to identify the other sects as 'heresies.'

[Secret Alias]

According to his understanding an apostolic succession was established at Rome from the beginning. Because his texts were first in the libraries he effective defined Christianity according to his own terms.

[Secret Alias]

But I think a date of 70 CE for the original clandestine text of the gospel is probably correct.

[Secret Alias]

I don't see how kapyong can argue that the evidence supports a 150 CE publication date. It's a stupid theory.

[Bernard Muller]

to Kapyong,
On Thu Oct 27, 2016 1:32 am, you posted: "Papias 100-130 knows rumours of two Gospel-like writings"
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2696&start=150#p60464

Then on Thu Oct 27, 2016 2:02 am, that is 30 minutes later, you posted: "Papias 100-130 is aware of two Gospel-like writings"
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2696&start=150#p60466

Did you make a correction?

Cordially, Bernard

[Bernard Muller]

to Secret Alias,

I think Irenaeus was responsible for placing Christian texts (the canon, Justin Martyr and a few others) in the public libraries.

Do we have evidence for that?
"Early in the fourth century, the religion was legalized by the Edict of Milan" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Christians
That means before early fourth century, Christianity was illegal.

Cordially, Bernard

[MrMacSon]

I think Irenaeus was responsible for placing Christian texts (the canon, Justin Martyr and a few others) in the public libraries. This is how the orthodox texts became the definitive edition. Trobisch has been supportive of the general observation.

You mean Irenaeus did that late 2nd century, yet portrayed those texts as if they had been earlier than when he placed them?

When this edition of the Christian Bible was made public all the other editions could be accused of willful forgeries bent on diminishing or denying the 'divine monarchy'. This is why it was so important for Irenaeus to identify the other sects as 'heresies.'

or how he was able to portray other sects as heresies.

I've placed the two sentences in your next post reverse order (b/c it seems to flow better) -

Because his texts were first in the libraries he effective defined Christianity according to his own terms.

According to his understanding an apostolic succession was established at Rome from the beginning.

^According to his 'understanding', or according to his mendacity?

But I think a date of 70 CE for the original clandestine text of the gospel is probably correct.

Calling it clandestine b/c it does not seem to have been known for 50-60 yrs [at least]?

[Secret Alias]

Bernard,

Not positive evidence no. But it does explain a number of difficulties like for instance Celsus's knowledge of Christianity. He seems to have had access to a library that contained Christian books. That library was either public or private. There's other evidence too. It's been a while since I've gone through it all. But the idea that Christian MSS were placed in public libraries does explain a lot. I think I left the topic by asking (a) is there any reason to suppose that Irenaeus would have objected to doing this? (b) when he discusses the creation of LXX it seems to imply the same thing could have happened with the Christian canon.