Biblical Criticism & History Forum - earlywritings.com

FransJVermeiren wrote:

Ben C. Smith wrote: I do think it interesting that some early writings (such as 1 Peter, but there are others) seem to focus on the suffering more than on the death. But words cannot express how much I disagree with your overall answer to the question. Approaches differ, I suppose.

Yes, Ben, approaches differ, but it’s not my intention to offend anyone.

Oh, fear not, it is not offense. It is just disagreement.

Jesus, the most important survivor

A following fragment in which rising from the midst of the dead occurs, is Acts 26:23. Here also suffering (without death) is combined with rising/recovery.

Acts 26:22-23 go as follows:
(22) To this day I have had the help that comes from God, and so I stand here testifying both to small and great, saying nothing but what the prophets and Moses said would come to pass: (23) that the Christ must suffer, and that, by being the first to rise from the dead, he would proclaim light both to the people and to the gentiles.

Verse 23 in Greek: εἰ παθητος ὁ χριστος, εἰ πρωτος ἐξ ἀναστασεως νεκρων φως μελλει καταγελλειν τῷ τε λαῷ και τοις ἔθνεσιν.

I believe that verse 23 gives a good indication that Jesus’ importance resulted from his fate rather than from his personality, teaching or activity. The Greek πρωτος does not necessarily mean the first chronologically or spatially, but also points to prominence, so ‘most important’. Jesus suffered extremely, and he rose to messianic status because he was the most important of those who recovered from amongst the countless mortal victims of the siege of Jerusalem. In other words: Jesus was the most important survivor of the siege. Not only was he a quite prominent man, his survival was also by far the most spectacular.

Verse 23 retranslated: that the Christ must suffer, and that, by being the most important of those who recovered from amongst the dead, he would proclaim light both to the people* and to the nations.
* ‘people’ as opposed to ‘the nations’, meaning the Jewish people and all the other peoples.

Does the Quadratus fragment provide any verification for the supposed "zombie periscope" in Matthew or is it too old to be counted as testimony to this? Was Quadratus talking about people the Jesus rose from the dead while he was preaching? Is this another exaggeration by Eusibius? I hadn't heard of this fragment before and would like to know what people think about it.

Kris wrote:Does the Quadratus fragment provide any verification for the supposed "zombie periscope" in Matthew or is it too old to be counted as testimony to this? Was Quadratus talking about people the Jesus rose from the dead while he was preaching? Is this another exaggeration by Eusibius? I hadn't heard of this fragment before and would like to know what people think about it.

Quadratus says
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/t ... ratus.html

Our Saviour's works, moreover, were always present: for they were real, consisting of those who had been healed of their diseases, those who had been raised from the dead; who were not only seen whilst they were being healed and raised up, but were afterwards constantly present. Nor did they remain only during the sojourn of the Saviour on earth, but also a considerable time after His departure; and, indeed, some of them have survived even down to our own times.

The reference to healing as well as resurrection implies IMO that Quadratus is speaking of miracles performed by Jesus while he was preaching.

Andrew Criddle

Thank you Andrew, that is an interesting thought-- that perhaps those "survivors" were some of the healed and not necessarily the resurrected. Did other early Christian apologists write about these miraculous people as well? I guess it wouldn't be unimaginable that some legends and stories in the Bible were purported to be true. They didn't really have a ton of fact checkers in the first century!

Kris wrote:Thank you Andrew, that is an interesting thought-- that perhaps those "survivors" were some of the healed and not necessarily the resurrected. Did other early Christian apologists write about these miraculous people as well? I guess it wouldn't be unimaginable that some legends and stories in the Bible were purported to be true. They didn't really have a ton of fact checkers in the first century!

Papias according to Philip of Side said

Papias in the second volume says that John the theologian and James his brother were done away with by Jews. The aforesaid Papias reported as having received it from the daughters of Philip that Barsabas who is Justus, tested by the unbelievers, drank the venom of a viper in the name of the Christ and was protected unharmed. He also reports other wonders and especially that about the mother of Manaemus, her resurrection from the dead. Concerning those resurrected by Christ from the dead, that they lived until Hadrian.

There are serious problems with this, see the discussion at http://www.textexcavation.com/papias.html

Andrew Criddle