Proofs That Jesus Existed

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
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JoeWallack
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Re: Proofs That Jesus Existed

Post by JoeWallack »

ARGUMENT FROM EXPLOITATION
(1) Pat Robertson is owner of "The 700 Club".
(2) "700" stands for "700 million".
(3) Pat Robertson is an idiot who could not convert two nickels into a dime.
(4) Pat Robertson made his fortune exploiting Jesus' existence.
(5) Therefore, Jesus existed.
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Blood
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Re: Proofs That Jesus Existed

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Argument From the Singularity of Healing (That Was Really Just Compassion When You Remove The Miraculous Element) by R. Joseph Hoffmann

1. The gospels say that Jesus cared for the poor, sick, and marginalized
2. There's nothing else like this in ancient literature
3. Therefore, the gospel stories are true
4. Therefore, Jesus existed

The motif of Jesus’s care for poor, sick, and marginalized people is as clear a theme as anything we have in ancient literature—in fact, we have nothing else quite like it. It seems merely fatuous to postulate this overwhelmingly human and personal concern of a mythological figure.
“The only sensible response to fragmented, slowly but randomly accruing evidence is radical open-mindedness. A single, simple explanation for a historical event is generally a failure of imagination, not a triumph of induction.” William H.C. Propp
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Blood
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Re: Proofs That Jesus Existed

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Argument From the Irreconcilability of Jesus's Biography with the Religious Biographies and Hero-Stories of His Day by R. Joseph Hoffman

1. The details of Jesus’s life were completely unsuited to the religious biographies and hero-stories of his day.
2. I'm just going to handwave away the fact that Jesus fulfills almost every data point of the mythic hero archetype as later Hellenized legend
3. Therefore, Jesus existed.

The details of Jesus’s life were completely unsuited to the religious biographies and hero-stories of his day. He was remembered as a failed radical, whose message became more prominent and popular—perhaps even prophetic– in hindsight. Even the most skeptical of New Testament scholars revert constantly to the theme of the radicalism of the figure of Jesus, so much so that the debate is really not about the theme but about its “morphology” – what accounts for it? It is this radicalism that turns the story of a historically exceptional figure into the unique story of a man who saved people from misery and poverty (attributed to sin, in the theological taxonomy of the day) and promised them a better life hereafter.
“The only sensible response to fragmented, slowly but randomly accruing evidence is radical open-mindedness. A single, simple explanation for a historical event is generally a failure of imagination, not a triumph of induction.” William H.C. Propp
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Peter Kirby
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Re: Proofs That Jesus Existed

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ARGUMENT FROM CATACOMBS
(1) The catacomb vaults are filled with art work, which testifies to the deep faith in Christ that was embraced by legions in the capital of the Roman empire.
(2) Common among these inscriptions was the figure of a fish, frequently containing the word ichthus (Greek for “fish”; Boyd, 1969, p. 203).
(3) The letters, however, were an acrostic for the declaration, Jesus Christ, God’s Son, Savior.
(4) Did millions, living in the shadows of the first century, die for a “myth”?
(5) Such a theory makes no sense.
(6) Therefore, Jesus existed.
"... almost every critical biblical position was earlier advanced by skeptics." - Raymond Brown
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Peter Kirby
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Re: Proofs That Jesus Existed

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ARGUMENT FROM PORPHYRY
(1) Porphyry of Tyre was born about A.D. 233, studied philosophy in Greece, and lived in Sicily where he wrote fifteen books against the Christian faith.
(2) In one of his books, “Life of Pythagoras,” he contended that magicians of the pagan world exhibited greater powers than Christ.
(3) His argument was an inadvertent concession of Jesus’ existence, and power.
(4) Therefore, Jesus existed.
"... almost every critical biblical position was earlier advanced by skeptics." - Raymond Brown
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Peter Kirby
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Re: Proofs That Jesus Existed

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ARGUMENT FROM LIVING ISSUES
(1) I'm not presently inclined to devote an issue to questioning the existence of Jesus.
(2) The topic is a perennial one among skeptics.
(3) If someone wants to doubt the existence of Jesus, my experience is that no evidence or argument will change his mind.
(4) Such is the nature of skepticism.
(5) But the existence of Jesus is not a living issue among historical Jesus scholars.
(6) Therefore, Jesus existed.
"... almost every critical biblical position was earlier advanced by skeptics." - Raymond Brown
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Peter Kirby
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Re: Proofs That Jesus Existed

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ARGUMENT FROM UNIQUE PERSONALITY
(1) The teachings and personality of Jesus were so unique that it is absolutely impossible to be derived from myth.
(2) Only a dynamic historical person could have started the Christian movement.
(3) This person left an indelible mark of his personality on the movement.
(4) Therefore, Jesus existed.
"... almost every critical biblical position was earlier advanced by skeptics." - Raymond Brown
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Peter Kirby
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Re: Proofs That Jesus Existed

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ARGUMENT FROM UNIQUE SAVIOR STORY
(1) There is absolutely no evidence of dying and rising gods before Jesus.
(2) Jesus' resurrection is unique in history and therefore must have started with a unique historical individual.
(3) Therefore, Jesus existed.
"... almost every critical biblical position was earlier advanced by skeptics." - Raymond Brown
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Peter Kirby
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Re: Proofs That Jesus Existed

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ARGUMENT FROM SHROUD OF TURIN
(1) The Shroud of Turin is authentic.
(2) Therefore, Jesus existed.
"... almost every critical biblical position was earlier advanced by skeptics." - Raymond Brown
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Peter Kirby
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Re: Proofs That Jesus Existed

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ARGUMENT FROM IDEAS NEVER CHANGING
(1) Let's say Jesus was a myth.
(2) Then one day, somebody got up and said, "Hey, Jesus was a real guy."
(3) Everyone would say, "WTF? He was a myth yesterday."
(4) That does not make sense!
(5) Therefore, Jesus existed.
"... almost every critical biblical position was earlier advanced by skeptics." - Raymond Brown
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