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Toward a Contextualization of Chrestos

Posted: Mon May 08, 2017 8:14 pm
by Secret Alias
I want to put examples of Christians knowing the common homiletic explanation for the name Israel being derived from yashar:
He afterwards contended with an angel in the form of a man, and was strengthened by God; whereupon, instead of Jacob, the supplanter, he received the name, the most upright of God [Against Pelagius 3]
In a letter Jerome seems to indicate the "uprightness" is connected with castration:
Gird your sword over your thigh, o mighty one, in your form and beauty"; in Hebrew, "gird your sword over your thigh, o strong one, in your glory and comeliness." I think this is the place for you best to understand that you are girded with the military sword of Christ. You should however know that virginity always has the sword of modesty thorugh which it cuts off the works of the flesh and conquers desires, and pagan error also imagined armed virgins as goddesses. And Peter girded his loins and held a burning lantern in his hands. That the thigh signifies the works of marriage, you will be taught briefly from these examples. Abraham sending to seek a wife for his son Isaac said to the elder [servant] of his house: "put your hand under my thigh and I will make you swear by the Lord God of heaven" [Gen.24:2-3] so there would be no doubt but that through him one would be born from his seed. Jacob, after he wrestled with the man who appeared to him at the torrent of Jabbok, left Mesopotamia and reached the promised land, not before he drew the name of Israel, as the nerve of his thigh withered. He spoke to his son: "the prince will not depart from Judah nor the leader from his thighs"

Re: Toward a Contextualization of Chrestos

Posted: Tue May 09, 2017 10:13 am
by davidbrainerd
Yasher would translate to δίκαιος not chrestos. Nice try with your historical revisionism, but epic fail.

And again, I don't understand why you want to attribute a complementary two powers view to Marcion rather than an adversarial two powers view, considering there is an unquestioned proponent of a complementary two powers view in the same time period, an opponent of Marcion, i.e. Justin Martyr.

Re: Toward a Contextualization of Chrestos

Posted: Tue May 09, 2017 11:10 am
by Secret Alias
Yes epic fail for someone certainly agree there
Proverbs 2:21 כִּי-יְשָׁרִים יִשְׁכְּנוּ-אD6רֶץ; וּתְמִימִים, יִוָּתְרוּ בָהּ

LXX Proverbs 2:21 χρηστοὶ ἔσονται οἰκήτορες γῆς ἄκακοι δὲ ὑπολειφθήσονται ἐν αὐτῇ ὅτι εὐθεῖς κατασκηνώσουσι γῆν καὶ ὅσιοι ὑπολειφθήσονται ἐν αὐτῇ

In short Chrestos = yashar. As Kittel notes Chrestos "when used20of people means 'worthy,' 'decent,' 'honest,' morally 'upright' or 'good." (p 1320)
And Israel are the yasharim so they are also Christians (= χρηστοὶ). It's undeniable. What happened to Jacob to make him Chrestos (= castrated) becomes the manner in which the elect, the priesthood of the new Israel/Chrestoi become angelic and godlike

Re: Toward a Contextualization of Chrestos

Posted: Tue May 09, 2017 11:17 am
by Secret Alias
Christians have a hard time

1 identifying Jesus as the Ish
2 extolling Jacob for wrestling against Jesus

1 was near universal originally. 2 is explained by saying Jacob embodies the Jewish resistance to God. Still the whole package is difficult

Re: Toward a Contextualization of Chrestos

Posted: Tue May 09, 2017 11:29 am
by davidbrainerd
Secret Alias wrote:r What happened to Jacob to make him Chrestos (= castrated) becomes the manner in which the elect, the priesthood of the new Israel/Chrestoi become angelic and godlike
Jerome is merely turning the sword on the thigh into a symbol of his favorite past time, pretending to care about virginity. Jacob was obviously not castrated.
Secret Alias wrote:Christians have a hard time

1 identifying Jesus as the Ish
I'll bet Justin does it. Of course Christians today don't identify Jesus as the angel, because of Hebrews 1, "Jesus is NOT an angel." But back in the days of Justin's mythologizing, of course non-Marcionite Christians, complementary two powers heretics, viewed it that way: Yet it has nothing to do with this story in particular, but with seeing Jesus as every angel in the OT.

Re: Toward a Contextualization of Chrestos

Posted: Tue May 09, 2017 2:08 pm
by Secret Alias
Jacob was obviously not castrated.

Re: Toward a Contextualization of Chrestos

Posted: Tue May 09, 2017 2:39 pm
by davidbrainerd
Secret Alias wrote: In a letter Jerome seems to indicate the "uprightness" is connected with castration:
Gird your sword over your thigh, o mighty one, in your form and beauty"; in Hebrew, "gird your sword over your thigh, o strong one, in your glory and comeliness." I think this is the place for you best to understand that you are girded with the military sword of Christ. You should however know that virginity always has the sword of modesty thorugh which it cuts off the works of the flesh and conquers desires, and pagan error also imagined armed virgins as goddesses.
Only a retard could come up with such an interpretation of Jerome.

He says "cuts off the WORKS of the flesh", not "cuts of the dingaling."

Quit twisting.

Nor is there even any indication in this quote that he is connecting virginity to 'uprightness' (which still wouldn't matter due to the above).

Again I say: Stop twisting.

Re: Toward a Contextualization of Chrestos

Posted: Tue May 09, 2017 2:42 pm
by MrMacSon
davidbrainerd wrote:
But back in the days of Justin's mythologizing, ..non-Marcionite Christians, complementary two powers heretics, viewed ... Jesus as every angel in the OT.
  • I'd say that's very likely.
  • ... Of course Christians today don't identify Jesus as the angel, because of Hebrews 1, "Jesus is NOT an angel."

Re: Toward a Contextualization of Chrestos

Posted: Tue May 09, 2017 4:21 pm
by Secret Alias
Jerome was talking about castration. The practice was never entirely abandoned and the subject was a difficult one for Origenists to speak openly about:

http://www.transchristians.org/archive/ ... ristianity

And that Jews understood Jacob to have had his penis touched or damaged is also well attested.

Re: Toward a Contextualization of Chrestos

Posted: Tue May 09, 2017 4:26 pm
by iskander
Did Jerome castrate Jacob?