Trees, crosses, and outstretched hands.

[MrMacSon]

The funny thing is you can even extend your arms along your body, forming a perfect σταυρός!

True, though no one mentions that (and it should be noted Lipsius is 16th C so may not have had any more info that we have today: he was just one of a few discussing the issue then.

Justin is rambling about the sail of a ship though, in those days they were of the traditional type I guess, a mast with a cross beam - and then the only thing missing is the head shaped thingy on top of the ⲥ⳨ⲟⲥ

I only grabbed that reference to Justin's First Apology from wikipedia, so had a look at the Catholic Encyclopedia english version -

Chapter 55, titled 'Symbols of the cross' -

But in no instance, not even in any of those called sons of Jupiter, did they imitate the being crucified; for it was not understood by them, all the things said of it having been put symbolically. And this, as the prophet foretold, is the greatest symbol of His power and role; as is also proved by the things which fall under our observation. For consider all the things in the world, whether without this form they could be administered or have any community. For the sea is not traversed except that trophy which is called a sail abide safe in the ship; and the earth is not ploughed without it: diggers and mechanics do not their work, except with tools which have this shape. And the human form differs from that of the irrational animals in nothing else than in its being erect and having the hands extended, and having on the face extending from the forehead what is called the nose, through which there is respiration for the living creature; and this shows no other form than that of the cross. And so it was said by the prophet, The breath before our face is the Lord Christ. And the power of this form is shown by your own symbols on what are called vexilla [banners] and trophies, with which all your state possessions are made, using these as the insignia of your power and government, even though you do so unwittingly. And with this form you consecrate the images of your emperors when they die, and you name them gods by inscriptions. Since, therefore, we have urged you both by reason and by an evident form, and to the utmost of our ability, we know that now we are blameless even though you disbelieve; for our part is done and finished. https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0126.htm

in Greek via http://khazarzar.skeptik.net/books/just ... olog1g.htm (via Ben's http://www.textexcavation.com/skeptiktexts.html)

.

LV

1. Ἀλλ’ οὐδαμοῦ οὐδ’ ἐπί τινος τῶν λεγομένων υἱῶν τοῦ Διὸς τὸ σταυρωθῆναι ἐμιμήσαντο· οὐ γὰρ ἐνοεῖτο αὐτοῖς, συμβολικῶς, ὡς προδεδήλωται, τῶν εἰς τοῦτο εἰρημένων πάντων λελεγμένων.

2. ὅπερ, ὡς προεῖπεν ὁ προφήτης, τὸ μέγιστον σύμβολον τῆς ἰσχύος καὶ ἀρχῆς αὐτοῦ ὑπάρχει, ὡς καὶ ἐκ τῶν ὑπ’ ὄψιν πιπτόντων δείκνυται· κατανοήσατε γὰρ πάντα τὰ ἐν τῷ κόσμῳ, εἰ ἄνευ τοῦ σχήματος τούτου διοικεῖται ἢ κοινωνίαν ἔχειν δύναται.

3. θάλασσα μὲν γὰρ οὐ τέμνεται, ἢν μὴ τοῦτο τὸ τρόπαιον, ὃ καλεῖται ἱστίον, ἐν τῇ νηῒ σῶον μείνῃ· γῆ δὲ οὐκ ἀροῦται ἄνευ αὐτοῦ· σκαπανεῖς δὲ τὴν ἐργασίαν οὐ ποιοῦνται οὐδὲ βαναυσουργοὶ ὁμοίως εἰ μὴ διὰ τῶν τὸ σχῆμα τοῦτο ἐχόντων ἐργαλείων.

4. τὸ δὲ ἀνθρώπειον σχῆμα οὐδενὶ ἄλλῳ τῶν ἀλόγων ζώων διαφέρει, ἢ τῷ ὀρθόν τε εἶναι καὶ ἔκτασιν χειρῶν ἔχειν καὶ ἐν τῷ προσώπῳ ἀπὸ τοῦ μετωπίου τεταμένον τὸν λεγόμενον μυξωτῆρα φέρειν, δι’ οὗ ἥ τε ἀναπνοή ἐστι τῷ ζώῳ, καὶ οὐδὲν ἄλλο δείκνυσιν ἢ τὸ σχῆμα τοῦ σταυροῦ.

5. καὶ διὰ τοῦ προφήτου δὲ ἐλέχθη οὕτως· Πνεῦμα πρὸ προσώπου ἡμῶν χριστὸς κύριος.

6. καὶ τὰ παρ’ ὑμῖν δὲ σύμβολα τὴν τοῦ σχήματος τούτου δύναμιν δηλοῖ, [ἵνα ἀμε]λῶμεν καὶ τῶν τροπαίων, δι’ ὧν αἵ τε πρόοδοι ὑμῶν πανταχοῦ γίνονται, τῆς ἀρχῆς καὶ δυνάμεως τὰ σημεῖα ἐν τούτοις δεικνύντες, εἰ καὶ μὴ νοοῦντες τοῦτο πράττετε.

7. καὶ τῶν παρ’ ὑμῖν ἀποθνησκόντων αὐτοκρατόρων τὰς εἰκόνας ἐπὶ τούτῳ τῷ σχήματι ἀνατίθετε, καὶ θεοὺς διὰ γραμμάτων ἐπονομάζετε.

8. καὶ διὰ λόγου οὖν καὶ σχήματος τοῦ φαινομένου, ὅση δύναμις, προτρεψάμενοι ὑμᾶς ἀνεύθυνοι οἴδα

eta: so the whole chapter is yet another vague comparative ramble of an old god to the new one - "the being crucified ... is the greatest symbol of His power and role; as is also proved by the things which fall under our observation" (lol)

(it looks like (5) has χριστὸς κύριος, not χριστὸς Ἰησοῦς or Ἰησοῦς χριστὸς - χριστὸς κύριος comes across as less human to me)

I just invented the idea today, but I really do wonder whether all the fuss was caused in an attempt to disassociate Jesus being impaled up ye olde cavity - that would be not very uncommon, but in general being impaled doesn't make for a grand image of a saviour of any kind, the only way there is some dignity to it is in the picture you just showed

I agree. fwiw, there's an image of impaled Judeans in a relief from the public commemoration of the Assyrian victory in 701 BC after the Siege of Lachish, but they were impaled through the abdomen below the rib cage, via https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impalemen ... ian_Empire

Apparently a passage in the Book of Esther concerning the fate of the 5th-century BC Persian minister Haman and his ten sons has been treated differently by different translators, leading to an ambiguity as to whether they were impaled or hanged, and II Samuel 21:9, concerning the fate of the sons of Saul, has some English translations using the verb "impale" [perhaps a version of stauros],* but others use "hang".

* From John Granger Cook, 2014: "Stipes is Seneca's term for the object used for impalement. This narrative and his Ep. 14.5 are the only two textually explicit references to impalement in Latin texts:"

.
I see crosses there, not just of one kind but made differently by different [fabricators]; some individuals suspended their victims with heads inverted toward the ground; some drove a stake (stipes) through their excretory organs/genitals; others stretched out their [victims'] arms on a patibulum [cross bar]; I see racks, I see lashes ...

Video istic cruces ne unius quidem generis sed aliter ab aliis fabricatas; capite quidam conuersos in terram suspendere, alii per obscena stipitem egerunt, alii brachia patibulo explicuerunt; video fidiculas, video uerbera ...
.

[MrMacSon]

Chapter 55, titled 'Symbols of the cross' -

But in no instance, not even in any of those called sons of Jupiter, did they imitate the being crucified; for it was not understood by them, all the things said of it having been put symbolically. And this, as the prophet foretold, is the greatest symbol of His power and role; as is also proved by the things which fall under our observation ... https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0126.htm

There's so much diminishing and sidelining, and re-writing history, in the writings of the likes of Justin Martyr and Irenaeus, to the point of gaslighting.

The previous chapter - 54 - of First Apology is another example of gaslighting rhetoric -

But those who hand down the myths which the [mere] poets have made, adduce no proof to the youths who learn them; and we proceed to demonstrate that they have been uttered by the influence of the wicked demons, to deceive and lead astray the human race. For [supposedly] having heard it proclaimed through the prophets that the Christ was to come, and that the ungodly among men were to be punished by fire, they [supposedly then] put forward many to be called sons of Jupiter, under the impression that they would be able to produce in men the idea that the things which [had supposedly been] said with regard to Christ were mere marvellous tales, like the things which were said by the poets.

And these things were said both among the Greeks and among all nations [ἔθνεσι] where they [the demons] [supposedly] heard the prophets foretelling that Christ would specially be believed in; but that in hearing what was said by the prophets they did not accurately understand it, but imitated what was said of our Christ, like men who are in error, we will make plain. The prophet Moses, then, was, as we have already said, older than all writers; and by him, as we have also said before, it was thus predicted:

• There shall not fail a prince from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until He come for whom it [his Seed] is reserved; and He shall be the desire of the Gentiles [nations/peoples, ἐθνῶν], binding His foal to the vine, washing His robe in the blood of the grape [Genesis 49:10-11]

The devils, accordingly, when they heard these prophetic words, said that Bacchus was the son of Jupiter, and gave out that he was the discoverer of the vine, and they number wine [or, the ass] among his mysteries; and they taught that, having been torn in pieces, he ascended into heaven. And [supposedly] because in the prophecy of Moses it had not been expressly intimated whether He who was to come was the Son of God, and whether He would, riding on the foal, remain on earth or ascend into heaven, and because the name of foal could mean either the foal of an ass or the foal of a horse, they, not knowing whether He who was foretold would bring the foal of an ass or of a horse as the sign of His coming, nor whether He was the Son of God, as we said above, or of man, gave out that Bellerophon, a man born of man, himself ascended to heaven on his horse Pegasus.

And when they [supposedly] heard it said by the other prophet Isaiah, that He should be born of a virgin, and by His own means ascend into heaven, they [supposedly] pretended that Perseus was spoken of. And when they [supposedly] knew what was said, as has been cited above, in the prophecies written aforetime, Strong as a giant to run his course, they said that Hercules was strong, and had journeyed over the whole earth. And when, again, they learned that it had been foretold that He should heal every sickness, and raise the dead, they produced Æsculapius.
.

.

LIV

1. Οἱ δὲ παραδιδόντες τὰ μυθοποιηθέντα ὑπὸ τῶν ποιητῶν οὐδεμίαν ἀπόδειξιν φέρουσι τοῖς ἐκμανθάνουσι νέοις, καὶ ἐπὶ ἀπάτῃ καὶ ἀπαγωγῇ τοῦ ἀνθρωπείου γένους εἰρῆσθαι ἀποδείκνυμεν κατ’ ἐνέργειαν τῶν φαύλων δαιμόνων.

2. ἀκούσαντες γὰρ διὰ τῶν προφητῶν κηρυσσόμενον παραγενησόμενον τὸν Χριστόν, καὶ κολασθησομένους διὰ πυρὸς τοὺς ἀσεβεῖς τῶν ἀνθρώπων, προεβάλλοντο πολλοὺς λεχθῆναι λεγομένους υἱοὺς τῷ Διΐ, νομίζοντες δυνήσεσθαι ἐνεργῆσαι τερατολογίαν ἡγήσασθαι τοὺς ἀνθρώπους τὰ περὶ τὸν Χριστὸν καὶ ὅμοια τοῖς ὑπὸ τῶν ποιητῶν λεχθεῖσι.

3. καὶ ταῦτα δ’ ἐλέχθη καὶ ἐν Ἕλλησιν καὶ ἐν ἔθνεσι πᾶσιν, ὅπου μᾶλλον ἐπήκουον τῶν προφητῶν πιστευθήσεσθαι τὸν Χριστὸν προκηρυσσόντων.

4. ὅτι δὲ καὶ ἀκούοντες τὰ διὰ τῶν προφητῶν λεγόμενα οὐκ ἐνόουν ἀκριβῶς, ἀλλ’ ὡς πλανώμενοι ἐμιμήσαντο τὰ περὶ τὸν ἡμέτερον Χριστόν, διασαφήσομεν.

5. Μωυσῆς οὖν ὁ προφήτης, ὡς προέφημεν, πρεσβύτερος ἦν πάντων συγγραφέων, καὶ δι’ αὐτοῦ, ὡς προεμηνύσαμεν, προεφητεύθη οὕτως· Οὐκ ἐκλείψει ἄρχων ἐξ Ἰούδα καὶ ἡγούμενος ἐκ τῶν μηρῶν αὐτοῦ, ἕως ἂν ἔλθῃ ᾧ ἀπόκειται· καὶ αὐτὸς ἔσται προσδοκία ἐθνῶν, δεσμεύων πρὸς ἄμπελον τὸν πῶλον αὐτοῦ, πλύνων τὴν στολὴν αὐτοῦ ἐν αἵματι σταφυλῆς.

6. τούτων οὖν τῶν προφητικῶν λόγων ἀκούσαντες οἱ δαίμονες Διόνυσον μὲν ἔφασαν γεγονέναι υἱὸν τοῦ Διός, εὑρετὴν δὲ γενέσθαι ἀμπέλου παρέδωκαν, καὶ οἶνον ἐν τοῖς μυστηρίοις αὐτοῦ ἀναγράφουσι, καὶ διασπαραχθέντα αὐτὸν ἀνεληλυθέναι εἰς οὐρανὸν ἐδίδαξαν.

7. καὶ ἐπειδὴ διὰ τῆς Μωυσέως προφητείας οὐ ῥητῶς ἐσημαίνετο, εἴτε υἱὸς τοῦ θεοῦ ὁ παραγενησόμενός ἐστι, καὶ εἰ ὀχούμενος ἐπὶ πώλου ἐπὶ γῆς μενεῖ ἢ εἰς οὐρανὸν ἀνελεύσεται, καὶ τὸ τοῦ πώλου ὄνομα καὶ ὄνου πῶλον καὶ ἵππου σημαίνειν ἐδύνατο, μὴ ἐπιστάμενοι εἴτε ὄνου πῶλον ἄγων ἔσται σύμβολον τῆς παρουσίας αὐτοῦ εἴτε ἵππου ὁ προκηρυσσόμενος, καὶ υἱὸς θεοῦ ἐστιν, ὡς προέφημεν, ἢ ἀνθρώπου, τὸν Βελλεροφόντην καὶ αὐτὸν ἐφ’ ἵππου Πηγάσου, ἄνθρωπον ἐξ ἀνθρώπου γενόμενον, εἰς οὐρανὸν ἔφασαν ἀνεληλυθέναι.

8. ὅτε δὲ ἤκουσαν διὰ τοῦ ἄλλου προφήτου Ἠσαίου λεχθέν, ὅτι διὰ παρθένου τεχθήσεται καὶ δι’ ἑαυτοῦ ἀνελεύσεται εἰς τὸν οὐρανόν, τὸν Περσέα λεχθῆναι προεβάλλοντο.

9. καὶ ὅτε ἔγνωσαν εἰρημένον, ὡς προλέλεκται ἐν ταῖς προγεγραμμέναις προφητείαις, Ἰσχυρὸς ὡς γίγας δραμεῖν ὁδόν, τὸν Ἡρακλέα ἰσχυρὸν καὶ ἐκπερινοστήσαντα τὴν πᾶσαν γῆν ἔφασαν.

10. ὅτε δὲ πάλιν ἔμαθον προφητευθέντα θεραπεύσειν αὐτὸν πᾶσαν νόσον καὶ νεκροὺς ἀνεγερεῖν τὸν Ἀσκληπιὸν παρήνεγκαν.
.

[mlinssen]

There's so much diminishing and sidelining, and re-writing history, in the writings of the likes of Justin Martyr and Irenaeus, to the point of gaslighting.

The previous chapter - 54 - of First Apology is another example of gaslighting rhetoric -

But those who hand down the myths which the [mere] poets have made, adduce no proof to the youths who learn them; and we proceed to demonstrate that they have been uttered by the influence of the wicked demons, to deceive and lead astray the human race. For [supposedly] having heard it proclaimed through the prophets that the Christ was to come, and that the ungodly among men were to be punished by fire, they [supposedly then] put forward many to be called sons of Jupiter, under the impression that they would be able to produce in men the idea that the things which [had supposedly been] said with regard to Christ were mere marvellous tales, like the things which were said by the poets.

Fancy would have been the proper word there, or magical, or something else demeaning

And these things were said both among the Greeks and among all nations [ἔθνεσι] where they [the demons] [supposedly]

Off-topic: etnos again, always meaning (group of) people. Translated with Gentiles by our beloved Bible translators whenever it befits dogma.
It's not when you dig deep that Churchianity starts smelling from all sides. Just poke at it and it falls apart - it really is the worst collection of disparate half-baked stories that one could come up with, meticulously flogged into shape for millennia. And they're still talking their way out of it, even after 2,000 years.
There's nothing, nothing at all about baptism in the NT - just that it's done in water.
And now, there's not even a crucifixion. Staked on a stake, yes. But nailed to a cross? Absolutely nothing like that. Funny thing is, even these days they're fighting to claim that with Jesus crucifixion was invented

https://www.answering-islam.org/Respons ... ixion2.htm

I'd suggest for the team on the other side to simply look at the Bible texts themselves

Egypt. It keeps coming back

[davidmartin]

So, short answer: wood

thanks ml, you're posts are encouraging me to get back a bit more into Coptic. maybe i'll go through that gospel of truth passage again!
'wood' pops up in the trimorphic protennoia as well. "i bore him from the cursed wood"

ps on reflection i don't think the 'love the tree but hate the fruit' is a direct reference in any way to the crucifixion, only that it could have been understood that way later. it works on it's own, but if we're trying to pull out crucifixion references in Thomas however fleeting it could be flagged

that HRAI is still bugging me. it appears in the Thought of Norea (at least twice)



so should it be 'calls up' or 'calls down' ?
or does Egyptian like to leave it up to the hearer then to translate into English could be something like 'who calls them' it might be better to leave HRAI untranslated since 'call' implies movement (the E)

[mlinssen]

So, short answer: wood

thanks ml, you're posts are encouraging me to get back a bit more into Coptic. maybe i'll go through that gospel of truth passage again!
'wood' pops up in the trimorphic protennoia as well. "i bore him from the cursed wood"

ps on reflection i don't think the 'love the tree but hate the fruit' is a direct reference in any way to the crucifixion, only that it could have been understood that way later. it works on it's own, but if we're trying to pull out crucifixion references in Thomas however fleeting it could be flagged

that HRAI is still bugging me. it appears in the Thought of Norea (at least twice)



so should it be 'calls up' or 'calls down' ?
or does Egyptian like to leave it up to the hearer then to translate into English could be something like 'who calls them' it might be better to leave HRAI untranslated since 'call' implies movement (the E)

Both. The funny thing is, I'm perfectly alright with https://coptic-dictionary.org/entry.cgi?tla=C6869 being the word for heart as well as mind - it is one and the same word!
But I get all itchy with https://coptic-dictionary.org/results.c ... e&lang=any meaning both up(...) as down(...)

My translation is fully normalised, meaning I pick one English word for each unique Coptic word, and the English words must be unique as well. A puzzle, but it's complete. As such, I happen to have picked only one translation for HRAI, and it is up(...).
ϩⲣⲁⲓ occurs 4 times, translated as upper part.
ⲉϩⲣⲁⲓ occurs 5 times, translated as upward. It also has 1 combination with the verb to-come.
ⲉⲡⲉⲥⲏⲧ occurs 4 times, translated as downward

I'll go along with your wood and tree but merely trying to be nice there. It is one of the worst claims and most far-fetched of ideas but yes, there is a tree in the logion. And a fruit. And fruits hang from a tree

But is Thomas berating the disciples because they treat tree and fruit differently? Yes.
So is he implying that they should love the cross that Jesus is crucified on (I am now absolutely out of control and letting it all go LOL) because they should love Jesus?

The answer should be yes, but it is completely illogical that way. Oh, "how very Thomasine", you say?
And that's exactly the problem with analysis of Thomas: any ferociously far-fetched fantasy flies, really

Well, there are limits to that. In my life LOL

[davidmartin]

interesting, what might help here is to search the coptic new testament looking for HRAI's and compare them to the Greek word. how many times is it up or down? i'm not volunteering although i did find 243 of them in a search... would it be worth it?

Matthew 1:1 Jesus for this one born he down in Bethlehem of Judea
That's 1 in the down camp. But 'born down in' could be a stock phrase although 'born up in Bethlehem' works fine in English
ⲓ̅ⲥ̅ ⲇⲉ ⲛⲧⲉⲣⲟⲩϫⲡⲟϥ ϩⲣⲁⲓ ϩⲛⲃⲏⲑⲗⲉⲉⲙ ⲛⲧⲉϯⲟⲩⲇⲁⲓⲁ


far fetched ideas? very favourite kind!
but i agree when it comes to the fruit and tree in Thomas it works perfectly without a crucifixion reference not gonna pursue that one any further

[mlinssen]

interesting, what might help here is to search the coptic new testament looking for HRAI's and compare them to the Greek word. how many times is it up or down? i'm not volunteering although i did find 243 of them in a search... would it be worth it?

Matthew 1:1 Jesus for this one born he down in Bethlehem of Judea
That's 1 in the down camp. But 'born down in' could be a stock phrase although 'born up in Bethlehem' works fine in English
ⲓ̅ⲥ̅ ⲇⲉ ⲛⲧⲉⲣⲟⲩϫⲡⲟϥ ϩⲣⲁⲓ ϩⲛⲃⲏⲑⲗⲉⲉⲙ ⲛⲧⲉϯⲟⲩⲇⲁⲓⲁ


far fetched ideas? very favourite kind!
but i agree when it comes to the fruit and tree in Thomas it works perfectly without a crucifixion reference not gonna pursue that one any further

https://copticscriptorium.org/

[robert j]

Robert, I would encourage you to read John Cook's Crucifixion in the Mediterranean World. It engages with Samuelsson's work directly, and shows that a number of his claims are likely wrong, including ones about the shape of the stauros and how the term should be translated.

The unfortunate reality is that Samuelsson either deliberately excluded evidence from his study that contradicted his conclusions, or he simply failed to take it into account. Either way, his book paints an incomplete picture.

I haven’t read Cook’s book, but I have previously read his 2014 article, Crucifixion in the Ancient Mediterranean World, and also his review of Samuelsson’s book. Based on those, I’m not interested in reading Cook's book.

From what I’ve read, my impression is that Cook provides a more Christian-friendly review of the topic. The historical information appeared reasonably accurate, but Cook seemed to present an out-sized emphasis on relatively late, Latin texts and Roman-centric evidence.

I was impressed by Samuelsson’s book for the relative absence of apologetic tendencies, and found a critical, steely-eyed evaluation of the topic for the several relevant languages. YMMV.

... it depends on what point-in-time in the evolution of the story of a salvific Jesus Christ one wishes to depict.

When one considers the text of GMark ... the author chose to set his story during the governorship of Pilate ... Hence the death at the hands of Roman authorities in that tale provides a reasonable argument that the wooden instrument might be seen as cross-shaped because the Romans of the times were known to have sometimes attached a cross-bar to an upright stake for human suspensions. The same argument can apply to most subsequent stories and legends about a Jesus Christ following GMark.

If one’s interest in the topic lays in the relatively later legends about a Jesus Christ that died at the hands of the Romans, I suppose Cook might be helpful. But my primary interest is the earliest extant evidence, Paul’s letters, the earliest texts about a Jesus Christ. I believe that the pre-Pauline Greek and Jewish literature should provide the primary resource for evaluating Paul’s terminology of human suspension.

This is from Cook’s concluding paragraph from his review of Samuelsson’s book [bracketed comment is mine] ---

"If an author indicates in a context of execution that a living individual was suspended by a Roman authority, then crucifixion is a justified inference … Samuelsson’s neglect of the graffiti [2nd century CE, Roman] is a crucial shortcoming … "

Nowhere in Paul’s letters is the death of his Jesus Christ attributed to the Romans.

[mlinssen]

I did a write up of all occurrences of cross and cruci, in the entire NT. Stand back please

English (LSJ)
ὁ,

• A upright pale or stake, σταυροὺς ἐκτὸς ἔλασσε διαμπερὲς ἔνθα καὶ ἔνθα πυκνοὺς καὶ θαμέας Od.14.11, cf. Il.24.453, Th.4.90, X. An.5.2.21; of piles driven in to serve as a foundation, Hdt.5.16, Th.7.25.
• II cross, as the instrument of crucifixion, D.S.2.18, Ev.Matt.27.40, Plu.2.554a; ἐπὶ τὸν σ. ἀπάγεσθαι Luc.Peregr.34; σ. λαμβάνειν, ἆραι, βαστάζειν, metaph. of voluntary suffering, Ev.Matt.10.38, Ev.Luc.9.23, 14.27: its form was represented by the Greek letter T, Luc.Jud.Voc.12.
• b pale for impaling a corpse, Plu.Art.17.

The word is stauros, σταυρός. And we're getting on dangerous grounds here, questioning the absolute core and essence of Christianity - but the example is exactly identical to the previous one, only the scale differs. Stauros, as you can see, means pole, stake, pale: a round piece of wood. It is used as a way to fence off property, as a means for foundation, and it is also a rudimentary tool or weapon for shepherds, land labourers and the like. If you consult ancient Greek texts like Odyssey and Iliad, you'll find that they are also used to hurt humans. The Egyptians were also very fond of the stake as instrument of (inevitable, slow) death and it was a common and cheap, readily available instrument many centuries before CE.
Below are all occurrences of the word cross, from Berean Literal:

[EDIT: this list is incomplete, the correct and full list is at viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7459&p=115421#p1154212020-12-09 10:00]

Matthew 10:38 And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. (τὸν σταυρὸν)
Matthew 16:24 Then Jesus said His to disciples, “If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me. (τὸν σταυρὸν)
Matthew 27:32 And going forth, they found a man of Cyrene, named Simon. They compelled him that he might carry His cross. (τὸν σταυρὸν)
Matthew 27:40 and saying, “The One destroying the temple and building it in three days, save Yourself! If You are the Son of God, also descend from the cross!” (τοῦ σταυροῦ)
Matthew 27:42 “He saved others. He is not able to save Himself. He is King of Israel! Let Him descend now from the cross, and we will believe in Him. (τοῦ σταυροῦ)

Mark 8:34 And having summoned the crowd with His disciples, He said to them, “If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and let him take up his cross, and let him follow Me. (τὸν σταυρὸν)
Mark 15:21 And they compel one passing by, Simon of Cyrene, the father of Alexander and Rufus, coming from the country, that he might carry His cross. (τὸν σταυρὸν)
Mark 15:30 save Yourself, having descended from the cross!” (τοῦ σταυροῦ)
Mark 15:32 The Christ, the King of Israel, let Him descend now from the cross, that we might see and believe!” And those being crucified with Him were upbraiding Him. (τοῦ σταυροῦ)

Luke 9:23 And He was saying to all, “If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and let him take up his cross every day, and let him follow Me. (τὸν σταυρὸν)
Luke 14:27 Whoever does not carry his cross and come after Me is not able to be My disciple. (τὸν σταυρὸν)
Luke 23:26 And as they led Him away, having laid hold on Simon, a certain man of Cyrene coming from the country, they put upon him the cross, to carry it behind Jesus. (τὸν σταυρὸν)

John 19:17 And bearing His own cross, He went out to the place called the Place of the Skull, which in Hebrew is called Golgotha, (τὸν σταυρὸν)
John 19:19 And Pilate also wrote a title and put it on the cross. And it was written, (τοῦ σταυροῦ)
John 19:25 Now His mother, and the sister of His mother, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary Magdalene, had been standing by the cross of Jesus. (τῷ σταυρῷ)
John 19:31 Therefore the Jews, because it was the Preparation, so that bodies would not remain on the cross on the Sabbath-for that Sabbath was a high day-asked Pilate that their legs might be broken and they might be taken away. (τοῦ σταυροῦ)

1 Corinthians 1:17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel; not in wisdom of discourse, so that the cross of the Christ should not be emptied of its power. (ὁ σταυρὸς)
1 Corinthians 1:18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those indeed perishing, but to us being saved it is the power of God. (τοῦ σταυροῦ)

Galatians 5:11 Now brothers, if I still proclaim circumcision, why still am I persecuted? In that case the offense of the cross has been abolished. (τοῦ σταυροῦ)
Galatians 6:12 As many as desire to have a fair appearance in the flesh, these compel you to be circumcised, only that they might not be persecuted for the cross of Christ. (τῷ σταυρῷ)
Galatians 6:14 But for me, may it be never to boast, except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me and I to the world. (τῷ σταυρῷ, ἐσταύρωται)

Ephesians 2:16 and He might reconcile both to God in one body through the cross, by it having slain the hostility. (τοῦ σταυροῦ)

Philippians 2:8 And having been found in appearance as a man He humbled Himself, having become obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. (σταυροῦ)
Philippians 3: 18 For many are walking-of whom I have told you often and now I say even weeping-as enemies of the cross of Christ, (τοῦ σταυροῦ)

Colossians 1:20 and by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace by the blood of His cross through Him, whether the things on the earth or the things in the heavens. (τοῦ σταυροῦ)
Colossians 2:14 having blotted out the handwriting in the decrees against us, which was adverse to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. (τῷ σταυρῷ)

Hebrew 12:2 looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith, who in view of the joy lying before Him endured the cross, having despised its shame, and sat down at right hand of the throne of God. (σταυρὸν)

Not so many occurrences really, although it seems to be a big theme in Christianity. Yet the occurrences of the word cross in the entire NT equal those of the word heaven in Matthew alone.
Again, each verse has the Greek word(s) in parentheses behind it, and those are again taken from the Blue Letter Bible website

Stauron: on each and every single occasion, the word is stauros: a pole, a pale, a stake. Yet there is a verb to it as well, and we have already encountered that once now:

Galatians 6:14 But for me, may it be never to boast, except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me and I to the world. (τῷ σταυρῷ, ἐσταύρωται)

The verb is not very exciting there, it simply is the noun, just as in English: stake, staked. Pale, (im)paled. But there must be other versions of the verb to crucify!?

Matthew 23:34 Because of this, behold, I send to you prophets and wise men and scribes. Some of them you will kill and will crucify, and some of them you will flog in your synagogues, and will persecute from town to town; (σταυρώσετε)
Matthew 27:26 Then he released Barabbas to them; and having flogged Jesus, He delivered Him up that He might be crucified. (σταυρωθῇ)
Matthew 27:31 And when they had mocked Him, they took off Him the robe, and they put His garments on Him and led away Him to crucify Him. (σταυρῶσαι)
Matthew 27:35 And having crucified Him, they divided His garments, casting lots. (σταυρώσαντες)
Matthew 27:38 At the same time two robbers are crucified with Him, one at the right hand, and one at the left. (σταυροῦνται)
Matthew 27:44 And likewise even the robbers, those having been crucified with Him, were upbraiding Him. (συσταυρωθέντες)

Mark 15:15 And Pilate, desiring to do that which was satisfactory to the crowd, released Barabbas to them. And having flogged Him, he delivered Jesus that He might be crucified. (σταυρωθῇ)
Mark 15:20 And when they had mocked Him, they took off Him the purple and put on Him His own garments. And they are leading Him out, that they might crucify Him. (σταυρώσωσιν)
Mark 15:24 And having crucified Him, they also divided His garments, casting lots for them, who should take what. (σταυροῦσιν)
Mark 15:25 And it was the third hour, and they crucified Him. (ἐσταύρωσαν)
Mark 15:27 And with Him they crucify two robbers, one at the right hand, and one at His left. (σταυροῦσιν)

Luke 23:23 But they were urgent, asking with loud voices for Him to be crucified. And their voices were prevailing. (σταυρωθῆναι)
Luke 23:33 And when they came to the place called The Skull, there they crucified Him, and the criminals, one on the right, and one on the left. (ἐσταύρωσαν)
Luke 24:20 and that our chief priests and rulers delivered Him up to the judgment of death, and crucified Him. (ἐσταύρωσαν)

John 19:16 So then, he delivered Him to them, that He might be crucified. Therefore they took Jesus. (σταυρωθῇ)
John 19:18 where they crucified Him, and with Him two others, on this side and on that side, and Jesus in between. (ἐσταύρωσαν)
John 19:20 Therefore many of the Jews read this title, for the place where Jesus was crucified was near the city, and it was written in Hebrew, in Latin, and in Greek. (ἐσταυρώθη)
John 19:23 Then the soldiers, when they crucified Jesus, took His garments and made four parts, to each soldier a part, and also the tunic. Now the tunic was seamless, woven from the top all throughout. (ἐσταύρωσαν)
John 19:32 So the soldiers came, and indeed they broke the legs of the first, and of the other having been crucified with Him. (συσταυρωθέντος)
John 19:41 Now there was a garden in the place where He was crucified, and in the garden a new tomb, in which no one had yet been laid. (ἐσταυρώθη)

Acts 2:23 Him delivered up by the determinate plan and foreknowledge of God, you put to death, having crucified Him by lawless hands, (προσπήξαντες)

Romans 6:6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, so that the body of sin might be annulled, that we are no longer enslaved to sin. (συνεσταυρώθη)

1 Corinthians 1:13 Has Christ been divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized into the name of Paul? (ἐσταυρώθη)
1 Corinthians 1:23 we, however, preach Christ having been crucified, a stumbling block indeed to the Jewish and foolishness to Gentiles, (ἐσταυρωμένον)

1 Corinthians 2:2 For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and Him having been crucified. (ἐσταυρωμένον)
1 Corinthians 2:8 which none of the rulers of this age has understood. For if they had understood it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. (ἐσταύρωσαν)

Galatians 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ, and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. And that which I now live in the flesh, I live through faith from the Son of God, the One having loved me and having given up Himself for me. (συνεσταύρωμαι)
Galatians 3:1 O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as having been crucified? (ἐσταυρωμένος)
Galatians 5:24 Now those of Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. (ἐσταύρωσαν)
Galatians 6:14 But for me, may it be never to boast, except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me and I to the world. (ἐσταύρωται)

Revelation 11:8 And their body will be upon the street of the great city, which is called spiritually Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified. (ἐσταυρώθη)

Acts 2:23 is very interesting, although most agree that Acts is a (very) unreliable source. The verb is 'to affix, fasten' and nothing more than that. Berean Literal disappoints here, but then again it is an empty phrase hanging in mid-air.
Yet there we have it: we have traversed the entire New Testament, looking for instances of the word cross, verb or noun or anything. And everywhere, except for one single instance, in Acts 2:23, the verb and noun share one thing: the root of both, which is σταυρὸς. The verb simply is the noun, just as in English the word stake can mean both: noun as well as verb

Is there any evidence in the entire NT for a cross, or a crucifixion? No, none. None at all, the noun and verb simply are identical and mean stake, pole, pale. Jesus simply gets σταυρὸς-ised on a σταυρὸς, and there's nothing more to it than that. No details about his posture, using nails: nothing. Jesus is impaled on a pale, or staked on a stake - just like that.
Why then this consistent mistranslation, based on nothing?
Again, I could answer that, and my answer would involve something about "dignified way to die", "all possible sorts of entry points for a stake", "likely made fun of by his opponents"

Turning the stake into a cross was just a damage limitation exercise, all the entire NT ever talks about is stake, stake, stake. Exactly like baptism, the gospel writers had no clue what to do with it - so they simply baptised with baptism, exactly like they just staked with a stake.
Because... well you know the drill

[mlinssen]

"And the duration of the crucifixion in the gospels is very short, only six hours in Mark, less than six hours in Matthew and Luke, and only around three hours in John"

That's from https://jesusorigins.com/wp-content/upl ... on-Gem.pdf, thanks again MrMacSon

Is that correct, these utterly short time frames?