Biblical Criticism & History Forum - earlywritings.com

But where Typhon falls in and touches upon her extreme parts, [...] For which reason the fable makes Typhon to be married to Nephthys, and Osiris to have accompanied with her by stealth. For the utmost and most extreme parts of matter, which they call Nephthys and the end, is mostly under the power of the destructive faculty;

archibald wrote: ↑Fri Jan 05, 2018 4:15 am
... you say elsewhere that you find absence of evidence compelling for the case for non-existence of a Jerusalem group of followers ...
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MrMacSon wrote: ↑Fri Jan 05, 2018 11:55 am

archibald wrote: ↑Fri Jan 05, 2018 4:15 am
... you say elsewhere that you find absence of evidence compelling for the case for non-existence of a Jerusalem group of followers ...
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You're misrepresenting my propositions and argument.

I am saying the absence of information about a continuation of that group, or the absence of information about a similar Christian-orthodox group, through the 2nd and 3rd centuries, shows a disconnect between (i) what is asserted about the mid-1st century Jerusalem Jewish-Christian group (containing the Pillars) and (ii) what later became Christianity.

MrMacSon wrote: ↑Fri Jan 05, 2018 2:37 am Yes, if there was a group that emerged out of Judaism one would think it would first be a branch of Judaism: a Jewish sect.

But I'm not convinced that happened, so I would go so far as to say, given the paucity of information about any [Jewish]-Christian sects or 'Christian' groups for nearly a century, and even then just an eccentric, heretical one (or two) -the Marcionites- there is no information that could count as evidence for anything that could resemble what was supposed to be a mainstream Christian group (supposedly started in the mid 1st century) for a couple of centuries, at least*

archibald wrote: ↑Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:43 pm
I'm having trouble reading this as anything other than doubting their existence:
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MrMacSon wrote: ↑Fri Jan 05, 2018 11:55 amif there was a group that emerged out of Judaism one would think it would first be a branch of Judaism: a Jewish sect.

But I'm not convinced that happened....{discussion on lack of evidence}..

archibald wrote: ↑Fri Jan 05, 2018 2:28 pm

MrMacSon wrote: ↑Fri Jan 05, 2018 11:55 amif there was a group that emerged out of Judaism one would think it would first be a branch of Judaism: a Jewish sect.

But I'm not convinced that happened....{discussion on lack of evidence}..

MrMacSon wrote: ↑Fri Jan 05, 2018 2:37 am

archibald wrote: ↑Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:35 am
.. Given that the group apparently emerged directly out of Judaism, doesn't it make more sense to think that at first it was one of a number of Jewish sects, a branch of Judaism? ... I wouldn't bet my house on anything about early Christianity, but I'd put a tenner on there being such a group at the start.
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Yes, if there was a group that emerged out of Judaism one would think it would first be a branch of Judaism: a Jewish sect.

But I'm not convinced that happened, so I would go so far as to say, given the paucity of information about any [Jewish]-Christian sects or 'Christian' groups for nearly a century, and even then just an eccentric, heretical one (or two) -the Marcionites- there is no information that could count as evidence for anything that could resemble what was supposed to be a mainstream Christian group (supposedly started in the mid 1st century) for a couple of centuries, at least*.


The silence is profoundly significant. Especially considering we are told the mainstream texts were available early on.

It's as if those texts weren't available [or weren't being added to -ie. subsequent communities were not adding their experiences, as one might expect].

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archibald wrote: ↑Fri Jan 05, 2018 4:15 am

MrMacSon wrote: ↑Fri Jan 05, 2018 4:06 amBut the point is how Paul portrayed him.

Indeed. As a man, born a Jew, born of a woman, from Zion, descended from David, in the flesh, preached, ate bread, was killed, by Jews, hung on a tree, was buried, rose again, supposedly fulfilling prophecies about a Jewish messiah, proof that other men can cheat death too, etc etc.

Or do you prefer to attribute all those to a non-earthly entity?

archibald wrote: ↑Fri Jan 05, 2018 3:41 pm Also, could you go back to this, it's more on topic:

archibald wrote: ↑Fri Jan 05, 2018 4:15 am

MrMacSon wrote: ↑Fri Jan 05, 2018 4:06 amBut the point is how Paul portrayed him.

Indeed. As a man, born a Jew, born of a woman, from Zion, descended from David, in the flesh, preached, ate bread, was killed, by Jews, hung on a tree, was buried, rose again, supposedly fulfilling prophecies about a Jewish messiah, proof that other men can cheat death too, etc etc.

Or do you prefer to attribute all those to a non-earthly entity?