Galileans, ambiguous oracles, Christians, and the generational prophecy.

[Ben C. Smith]

A common way in which the faithful rescue failed predictions is to claim that they were really predicting "spiritual events" all along.

[Ben C. Smith]

But I have not found any evidence that anybody did that early on with the generational prophecy.

[Giuseppe]

A common way in which the faithful rescue failed predictions is to claim that they were really predicting "spiritual events" all along.

yes: the predicted "spiritual event" is not the too much material destruction of the temple, but - as per the Transfiguration episode that fulfilled the prophecy in the story - the fact that for the first time the Christians "heard" and "saw" about the news of a Messiah lived on the earth 40 years before only in the 70.

[Ben C. Smith]

All of that is an obvious protective measure against having to deal with the failed generational prophecy.

[Giuseppe]

If the failure of the prophecy is not deliberate, then we should assume that the Jewish apocalypticism was really the true cause of the entire War against the Romans. I.e., that Josephus was right, afterall: the Jews were really expecting the Messiah in the 70.

[Ben C. Smith]

If the failure of the prophecy is not deliberate, then we should assume that the Jewish apocalypticism was really the true cause of the entire War against the Romans. I.e., that Josephus was right, afterall: the Jews were really expecting the Messiah in the 70.

It seems clear that at least some sectarian groups were.

[Giuseppe]

What is "disturbing" for me is that, if I was in the position of these sectarian groups, I would place the (invented or real "Messiah") in the 70 (I think about our Frans's view about Jesus son of Saphat, here). Not 40 years before.

What comforts partially me is the theological value of the difference 70- 40 = 30 CE. But only that.

[Giuseppe]

Not only the 70 - 40 affair, but also the need of anti-Roman secrecy (as per Frans and Lena Einhorn) may move an apocalyptic sect to place the expected Messiah 40 years before of the his (real or presumed) time.

[Ben C. Smith]

What is "disturbing" for me is that, if I was in the position of these sectarian groups, I would place the (invented or real "Messiah") in the 70 (I think about our Frans's view about Jesus son of Saphat, here). Not 40 years before.

What comforts partially me is the theological value of the difference 70- 40 = 30 CE. But only that.

Why is that not enough for you? Every Jew would know that it took 40 years for the wilderness generation to die out.

[Secret Alias]

I sometimes suspect that the reason many of these mythicists want to 'side step' Judaism is because it would require them to think outside of their preferred habits.