Revelation 13:8 supports a death in outer space

[Giuseppe]

καὶ προσκυνήσουσιν αὐτὸν πάντες οἱ κατοικοῦντες ἐπὶ τῆς γῆς, οὗ οὐ γέγραπται τὸ ὄνομα αὐτοῦ ἐν τῷ βιβλίῳ τῆς ζωῆς τοῦ Ἀρνίου τοῦ ἐσφαγμένου ἀπὸ καταβολῆς κόσμου

(Revelation 13:8)

And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world

Reading directly the Greek text, it is natural to refer the genitive:

τοῦ ἐσφαγμένου ἀπὸ καταβολῆς κόσμου

to the previous just mentioned male genitive :

τοῦ Ἀρνίου

rather than to the female genitive mentioned not so immediately before:

τῆς ζωῆς

Or even to the verb that is easily ignored:

γέγραπται

If the world was created when Jesus was crucified, this explains more easily:

• Why only demons killed him in 1 Cor 2:8

• The form of death (the cross being a symbol of creation in Plato)

• Why Paul preaches only a crucified Christ and nothing, absolutely nothing, about other mythical things of a mythical earthly Jesus (even if considered lived in a remote past).

[Giuseppe]

• The form of death (the cross being a symbol of creation in Plato)

I invite Ben to update the his list in progress on the reasons for a mythical crucifixion.

[Joseph D. L.]

But Astrotheology is just too fringe for you?

Foundation of the world can easily mean at the beginning of creation, with the earth being consecrated with the lamb’s blood.

Nothing about a celestial crucifixion.

[Giuseppe]

But Astrotheology is just too fringe for you?

Foundation of the world can easily mean at the beginning of creation, with the earth being consecrated with the lamb’s blood.

But the text says: before ("from": ἀπὸ) the creation of the world.

Hence, only outer space existed before that time.

[Giuseppe]

But Astrotheology is just too fringe for you?

it is even worse than that: the term astrotheology can't appear in the same line where "outer space" is mentioned.

[Ben C. Smith]

• The form of death (the cross being a symbol of creation in Plato)

I invite Ben to update the his list in progress on the reasons for a mythical crucifixion.

What is the reference from Plato?

[Giuseppe]

• The form of death (the cross being a symbol of creation in Plato)

I invite Ben to update the his list in progress on the reasons for a mythical crucifixion.

What is the reference from Plato?

And the physiological discussion concerning the Son of God in the Timæus of Plato, where he says, He placed him crosswise in the universe, he borrowed in like manner from Moses; for in the writings of Moses it is related how at that time, when the Israelites went out of Egypt and were in the wilderness, they fell in with poisonous beasts, both vipers and asps, and every kind of serpent, which slew the people; and that Moses, by the inspiration and influence of God, took brass, and made it into the figure of a cross, and set it in the holy tabernacle, and said to the people, If you look to this figure, and believe, you shall be saved thereby. Numbers 21:8 And when this was done, it is recorded that the serpents died, and it is handed down that the people thus escaped death. Which things Plato reading, and not accurately understanding, and not apprehending that it was the figure of the cross, but taking it to be a placing crosswise, he said that the power next to the first God was placed crosswise in the universe. And as to his speaking of a third, he did this because he read, as we said above, that which was spoken by Moses, that the Spirit of God moved over the waters. For he gives the second place to the Logos which is with God, who he said was placed crosswise in the universe

http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0126.htm

(Justin doesn't like to refer who is "he": the demiurge).

[Ben C. Smith]

• The form of death (the cross being a symbol of creation in Plato)

I invite Ben to update the his list in progress on the reasons for a mythical crucifixion.

What is the reference from Plato?

And the physiological discussion concerning the Son of God in the Timæus of Plato, where he says, He placed him crosswise in the universe, he borrowed in like manner from Moses; for in the writings of Moses it is related how at that time, when the Israelites went out of Egypt and were in the wilderness, they fell in with poisonous beasts, both vipers and asps, and every kind of serpent, which slew the people; and that Moses, by the inspiration and influence of God, took brass, and made it into the figure of a cross, and set it in the holy tabernacle, and said to the people, If you look to this figure, and believe, you shall be saved thereby. Numbers 21:8 And when this was done, it is recorded that the serpents died, and it is handed down that the people thus escaped death. Which things Plato reading, and not accurately understanding, and not apprehending that it was the figure of the cross, but taking it to be a placing crosswise, he said that the power next to the first God was placed crosswise in the universe. And as to his speaking of a third, he did this because he read, as we said above, that which was spoken by Moses, that the Spirit of God moved over the waters. For he gives the second place to the Logos which is with God, who he said was placed crosswise in the universe

http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0126.htm

(Justin doesn't like to refer who is "he": the demiurge).

That is a Christian referencing Plato. Do you mean to tell me that you have not even looked up the original reference in Plato himself?

[Giuseppe]

That is a Christian referencing Plato. Do you mean to tell me that you have not even looked up the original reference in Plato himself?

At the end of Timaeus, Plato proclaims that the living Cosmos (which he said had the shape of an X) is a visible, discernible god. The Demiurge first creates the World Soul, composed of two cosmic circles whose intersections take the form of an X.

It seems that also in the Talmudic tradition the tau is symbol of creation. Later I quote the references.

[Ben C. Smith]

Later I quote the references.

Thank you.