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Robert Stahl, Jean Magne and René Salm converge on a point: John the Baptist was the first person of the new religion

Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2022 6:43 am
by Giuseppe
The first person of the new religion has thus become the last person of the ancient Law

Now I have understood that the emphasis of René Salm on John the Baptist is not the speculations of an amateur who builds his theorem on a figure X of the New Testament (think about what Eisenman did with James the brother of Jesus), since his research is fully inserted in a thread who starts with Robert Stahl.


Whereas Jesus is a divine person first sent to Paradise and again under Tiberius to teach the path of salvation and institute the eucharist, the sacrement of gnosis, John, according to the hermetist myth of baptism in the crater (C.H. IV,4-6, see Logique des sacrements, p. 105-140) is simply a man chosen by the Father to proclaim baptism, the sacrament of noûs, the "intellect" or "spirit", a faculty of supernatural knowledge, the faculty of acquiring gnosis.
In accordance, therefore, with the logical precedence of the faculty of knowing over the acquisition of knowledge, baptism will precede the eucharist and John will be the forerunner of Jesus. It was easy to find biblical passages applicable to this situation: "Behold, I send a messenger before you" (Ex 23.20); "He will prepare the way before you" (Mal 3:1); "The voice of one crying in the wilderness: Prepare the Way of the Lord" (Is 40.3), quoted in Mk 1.2-3 and plls, the bad break in the last quotation gives it the meaning sought, which resulted in making John preach in the wilderness of Judaea.
As the Jews believed that Elijah who was taken to heaven (2 Kings 2.1) would one day return (Mal 4.5), John was invested with his coat of hair and leather belt (2 Kings 1.8; Mk 1.6).
In the infancy gospels John will be Jesus' cousin and necessarily his elder. He will die before him to leave him a clear field, and will be decapitated to symbolize, according to the Fathers, the cessation of the prophecy.
The first person of the new religion has thus become the last person of the ancient Law.

(Jean Magne, From Christianity to Gnosis and From Gnosis to Christianity, p. 203-204, my bold)

Re: Robert Stahl, Jean Magne and René Salm converge on a point: John the Baptist was the first person of the new religio

Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2022 8:45 am
by schillingklaus
The choice of midrash also proves that the repentence of sin is a later and more aggressively Judaizing corruption of the goal of John's kerygma. The former goal of John was to preach faith in Jesus as condition for baptising, so Jesus would be believed and be able to preach faith in the thitherto unknown Father. Late Judaizers illogically identify the Father with YHWH, and the Jewe's daily worries was not to know god but to please him and seek pardon for transgression of the law, using sacrifices and alms. If that had been the goal of introducing John, the gospel authors would have chosen some midrash on the central OT topic of Israel's penitence rather than one on prepareing the ways of the Lord.

Re: Robert Stahl, Jean Magne and René Salm converge on a point: John the Baptist was the first person of the new religio

Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2022 9:42 am
by Giuseppe
It is also interesting the various ways as the three mentioned scholars, Stahl, Magne and Salm, have argued about the identity of 'John'.
  • For Stahl, John was a Mandean mythological figure.
  • For Magne, John was already a first judaized icon in virtue of his name, meaning: 'YHWH-gives-grace', even if he preserved still partially the functions of the original anti-YHWH Revealer of gnosis. Then 'YHWH-gives-grace' was replaced by 'YHWH-gives-salvation', i.e. Jesus/Joshua.
  • For Salm, John was a historical figure from 1° century BCE, not an anti-demiurgist but a generic 'Jewish heresiarch'.

The general lesson is that any reconstruction that assumes anti-demiurgism preceding both ebionitism and catholicism has to have "John the Baptist" preceding the Jesus legend.

Re: Robert Stahl, Jean Magne and René Salm converge on a point: John the Baptist was the first person of the new religio

Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2022 9:49 am
by Giuseppe
Then there is the curious case of André Wautier, who argued that 'Jesus Barabbas' was originally 'John Bar-Abbas', merging in himself two identities:
  • 1) As "Jesus Bar-Abbas", he was the anti-demiurgist ' Jesus Son of the unknown Father', docet Stahl/Couchoud
  • 2) as "John Bar-Rabbas", i.e. "John the son of the Rabbi", he was John of Gamala, the son of the pharisee Judas the Galilean, a Jewish rebel.
As the trajectory goes, John of Gamala was replaced first by "Jesus Barabbas", the marcionite "Son of Father", and after by "Jesus called Christ".