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Re: At What Point Does 'Based on a Historical Character' Become Unhistorical?

Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2022 9:14 am
by mlinssen
mlinssen wrote: Tue Apr 05, 2022 8:52 am
lclapshaw wrote: Tue Apr 05, 2022 8:40 am I think that we need to be careful Martijn, of using examples like the one from Acts that you present. This presupposes that the writer of Acts, or Mark, etc, are using the abbreviation IC the same way as Paul, that they know what Paul is referring to when he uses IC. We have no way to determine if this is true or not and should really just use Paul to conduct our search imo.
Fine, we can stick to Romans ff and skip Revelations - I'll leave you to it but it won't make any sense, I can do the full search in a little while. But first:

What Bart has is a pet project where he sees what he wants to see, and bends whatever he sees through his own lens
I just searched for XS

LATER

Re: At What Point Does 'Based on a Historical Character' Become Unhistorical?

Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2022 9:48 am
by mlinssen
Ken Olson wrote: Tue Apr 05, 2022 6:55 am
lclapshaw wrote: Mon Apr 04, 2022 12:29 pm I'll play devils advocate and throw in IC XC = Isis Chrestus. As far as I know the use of H and HC after the iota (IH, IHC) might indicate feminine declension.

Lane
Isis, Ἶσις, is third declension and would not be declined like Jesus would (no IY overline), so it's not what shows up in Mark (Isis couldn't be IH or IHS either).

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E1%BC%B ... E%B9%CF%82

Best,

Ken
That's correct, but IS is only conjugated as a male noun like anthropos: IOS, IOU, IW, ION - there is absolutely nothing that suggests it would be anything like Jesus

IS is conjugated as a male noun, so IOS instead of IH. Which makes sense, given the likely fact that the protagonist was male

Re: At What Point Does 'Based on a Historical Character' Become Unhistorical?

Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2022 10:13 am
by lclapshaw
OK. As a start I have replaced Kyrios and Kyriou in 1 Corinthians with Kaisar and Lord with Caesar.

Παῦλος (Paul), κλητὸς (a called) ἀπόστολος (apostle) Χῦ (of XS) Ἰῦ (IS) διὰ (by the) θελήματος (will) Θεοῦ (of God), καὶ (and) Σωσθένης (Sosthenes), ὁ (the) ἀδελφὸς (brother),
2 Τῇ (To the) ἐκκλησίᾳ (church) τοῦ ( ) Θεοῦ (of God) «τῇ ( ) οὔσῃ (being) ἐν (in) Κορίνθῳ» (Corinth), ⇔ «ἡγιασμένοις (having been sanctified) ἐν (in) Χῷ (XS) Ἰῦ» (IS), κλητοῖς (called) ἁγίοις (holy), σὺν (together with) πᾶσιν (all) τοῖς (those) ἐπικαλουμένοις (calling on) τὸ (the) ὄνομα (name) τοῦ (of the) Kaisar (Caesar) ἡμῶν (of us) Ἰῦ (IS) Χῦ (XS) ἐν (in) παντὶ (every) τόπῳ (place), αὐτῶν (both theirs) καὶ (and) ἡμῶν (ours):
3 Χάρις (Grace) ὑμῖν (to you) καὶ (and) εἰρήνη (peace) ἀπὸ (from) Θεοῦ (God) Πατρὸς (Father) ἡμῶν (of us) καὶ (and) Kaisar (the Caesar) Ἰῦ (IS) Χῦ (XS). Thanksgiving(Philippians 1:3 11; Colossians 1:3 14; 2 Thessalonians 1:3 4)
4 Εὐχαριστῶ (I thank) τῷ (the) Θεῷ (God) ‹μου› (of me) πάντοτε (always) περὶ (concerning) ὑμῶν (you) ἐπὶ (for) τῇ (the) χάριτι (grace) τοῦ ( ) Θεοῦ (of God) τῇ ( ) δοθείσῃ (having been given) ὑμῖν (you) ἐν (in) Χῷ (XS) Ἰῦ (IS),
6 καθὼς (as) τὸ (the) μαρτύριον (testimony) τοῦ (about) Χῦ (XS) ἐβεβαιώθη (was confirmed) ἐν (in) ὑμῖν (you),
7 ὥστε (so as for) ὑμᾶς (you) μὴ (not) ὑστερεῖσθαι (to be lacking) ἐν (in) μηδενὶ (not one) χαρίσματι (gift), ἀπεκδεχομένους (eagerly awaiting) τὴν (the) ἀποκάλυψιν (revelation) τοῦ (of the) Kaisar (Caesar) ἡμῶν (of us) Ἰῦ (IS) Χῦ (XS),
8 ὃς (who) καὶ (also) βεβαιώσει (will sustain) ὑμᾶς (you) ἕως (to the) τέλους (end), ἀνεγκλήτους (blameless) ἐν+++ (in) τῇ (the) ἡμέρᾳ (day) τοῦ (of the) Kaisar (Caesar) ἡμῶν (of us) Ἰῦ (IS) Χῦ (XS).
9 πιστὸς (Faithful is) ὁ ( ) Θεὸς (God), δι’ (by) οὗ (whom) ἐκλήθητε (you were called) εἰς (into) κοινωνίαν (fellowship) τοῦ (with the) Υἱοῦ (Son) αὐτοῦ (of Him), Ἰῦ (IS) Χῦ (XS), τοῦ (the) Kaisar (Caesar) ἡμῶν (of us). Unity in the Church(Psalm 133:1 3; Ephesians 4:1 16)
10 Παρακαλῶ (I exhort) δὲ (now) ὑμᾶς (you), ἀδελφοί (brothers), διὰ (by) τοῦ (the) ὀνόματος (name) τοῦ (of the) Kaisar (Caesar) ἡμῶν (of us) Ἰῦ (IS) Χῦ (XS), ἵνα (that) τὸ (the) αὐτὸ (same thing) λέγητε (you speak) πάντες (all), καὶ (and) μὴ (not) ᾖ (there be) ἐν (among) ὑμῖν (you) σχίσματα (divisions); ἦτε (you may be) δὲ (however) κατηρτισμένοι (having been knit together) ἐν (in) τῷ (the) αὐτῷ (same) νοῒ (mind) καὶ (and) ἐν (in) τῇ (the) αὐτῇ (same) γνώμῃ (judgment).
12 λέγω (I mean) δὲ (now) τοῦτο (this), ὅτι (that) ἕκαστος (each) ὑμῶν (of you) λέγει (says), “Ἐγὼ (I) μέν (indeed) εἰμι (am) Παύλου (of Paul),” “Ἐγὼ (I) δὲ (and) Ἀπολλῶ (of Apollos),” “Ἐγὼ (I) δὲ (and) Κηφᾶ (of Cephas),”a “Ἐγὼ (I) δὲ (and) Χῦ (of XS).”
13 Μεμέρισται (Has been divided) ὁ ( ) Χς (XS)? μὴ (Not) Παῦλος (Paul) ἐσταυρώθη (was crucified) ὑπὲρ (for) ὑμῶν (you)? ἢ (Or) εἰς (into) τὸ (the) ὄνομα (name) Παύλου (of Paul) ἐβαπτίσθητε (were you baptized)?
17 οὐ (Not) γὰρ (for) ἀπέστειλέν (sent) με (me) Χς (XS) βαπτίζειν (to baptize), ἀλλὰ (but) εὐαγγελίζεσθαι (to preach the gospel), οὐκ (not) ἐν (in) σοφίᾳ (wisdom) λόγου (of discourse), ἵνα (that) μὴ (not) κενωθῇ (be emptied of power) ὁ (the) σταυρὸς (cross) τοῦ (of the) Χῦ (XS). The Message of the Cross
23 ἡμεῖς (we) δὲ (however) κηρύσσομεν (preach) Χν (XS) ἐσταυρωμένον (having been crucified), Ἰουδαίοις (to the Jewish) μὲν (indeed) σκάνδαλον (a stumbling block), ἔθνεσιν (to Gentiles) δὲ (now) μωρίαν (foolishness);
24 αὐτοῖς (to them) δὲ (however) τοῖς (the) κλητοῖς (called), Ἰουδαίοις (Jews) τε (both) καὶ (and) Ἕλλησιν (Greeks), Χν (XS) Θεοῦ (of God) δύναμιν (the power) καὶ (and) Θεοῦ (of God) σοφίαν (the wisdom).
30 Ἐξ (Out of) αὐτοῦ (Him) δὲ (however), ὑμεῖς (you) ἐστε (are) ἐν (in) Χῷ (XS) Ἰῦ (IS), ὃς (who) ἐγενήθη (has been made) σοφία (wisdom) ἡμῖν (unto us) ἀπὸ (from) Θεοῦ (God), δικαιοσύνη (righteousness) τε (and) καὶ (also) ἁγιασμὸς (sanctification) καὶ (and) ἀπολύτρωσις (redemption),
2 οὐ (Nothing) γὰρ (for) ἔκρινά (I decided) τι (anything) εἰδέναι (to know) ἐν (among) ὑμῖν (you), εἰ (if) μὴ (not) Ἰν (IS) Χν (XS), καὶ (and) τοῦτον (Him) ἐσταυρωμένον (having been crucified).
16 “Τίς (Who) γὰρ (for) ἔγνω (has known) νοῦν (the mind) Kaisar (of the Caesar)? ὃς (Who) συμβιβάσει (will instruct) αὐτόν (Him)?”b ἡμεῖς (We) δὲ (however) νοῦν (the mind) Χῦ (of XS) ἔχομεν (have).
1 Κἀγώ (And I) ἀδελφοί (brothers) οὐκ (not) ἠδυνήθην (was able) λαλῆσαι (to speak) ὑμῖν (to you) ὡς (as) πνευματικοῖς (to spiritual), ἀλλ’ (but) ὡς (as) σαρκίνοις (to fleshly), ὡς (as) νηπίοις (to infants) ἐν (in) Χῷ (XS).
9 Θεοῦ (Of God) γάρ (for) ἐσμεν (we are) συνεργοί (fellow workers); Θεοῦ (God’s) γεώργιον (field), Θεοῦ (God’s) οἰκοδομή (building) ἐστε (you are). XS Our Foundation(Isaiah 28:14 22; 1 Peter 2:4 12)
11 θεμέλιον (Foundation) γὰρ (for) ἄλλον (another), οὐδεὶς (no one) δύναται (is able) θεῖναι (to lay), παρὰ (besides) τὸν (the one) κείμενον (being already laid), ὅς (which) ἐστιν (is) Ἰς (IS) Χς (XS).
23 ὑμεῖς (you) δὲ (now) Χῦ (of XS), Χς (XS) δὲ (now) Θεοῦ (of God).
1 Corinthians 4Servants of XS
1 Οὕτως (So) ἡμᾶς (us), λογιζέσθω (let regard) ἄνθρωπος (a man) ὡς (as) ὑπηρέτας (servants) Χῦ (of XS) καὶ (and) οἰκονόμους (stewards) μυστηρίων (of the mysteries) Θεοῦ (of God).
5 Ὥστε (So then), μὴ (not) πρὸ (before the) καιροῦ (time) τι (anything) κρίνετε (judge), ἕως (until) ἂν ( ) ἔλθῃ (shall have come) ὁ (the) Κύριος (Caesar), ὃς (who) καὶ (both) φωτίσει (will bring to light) τὰ (the) κρυπτὰ (hidden things) τοῦ ( ) σκότους (of darkness), καὶ (and) φανερώσει (will make manifest) τὰς (the) βουλὰς (motives) τῶν (of the) καρδιῶν (hearts); καὶ (and) τότε (then) ὁ (the) ἔπαινος (praise) γενήσεται (will come) ἑκάστῳ (to each) ἀπὸ (from) τοῦ ( ) Θεοῦ (God). Fools for XS
10 Ἡμεῖς (We) μωροὶ (are fools) διὰ (on account of) Χν (XS), ὑμεῖς (you) δὲ (however) φρόνιμοι (wise) ἐν (in) Χῷ (XS); ἡμεῖς (we) ἀσθενεῖς (weak), ὑμεῖς (you) δὲ (however) ἰσχυροί (strong); ὑμεῖς (You) ἔνδοξοι (honored), ἡμεῖς (we) δὲ (however) ἄτιμοι (without honor).
15 ἐὰν (If) γὰρ (for) μυρίους (ten thousand) παιδαγωγοὺς (guardians) ἔχητε (you should have) ἐν (in) Χῷ (XS), ἀλλ’ (yet) οὐ (not) πολλοὺς (many) πατέρας (fathers); ἐν (in) γὰρ (for) Χῷ (XS) Ἰῦ (IS), διὰ (through) τοῦ (the) εὐαγγελίου (gospel), ἐγὼ (I) ὑμᾶς (you) ἐγέννησα (have begotten).
17 Διὰ (On account of) τοῦτο (this) 〈αὐτὸ〉 (it is) ἔπεμψα (I sent) ὑμῖν (to you) Τιμόθεον (Timothy), ὅς (who) ἐστίν (is) μου (my) τέκνον (child), ἀγαπητὸν (beloved) καὶ (and) πιστὸν (faithful) ἐν (in the) Kaisar (Caesar), ὃς (who) ὑμᾶς (you) ἀναμνήσει (will remind of) τὰς (the) ὁδούς (ways) μου (of me) τὰς (that are) ἐν (in) Χῷ (XS) Ἰῦ (IS),a καθὼς (as) πανταχοῦ (everywhere) ἐν (in) πάσῃ (every) ἐκκλησίᾳ (church) διδάσκω (I teach).
7 ἐκκαθάρατε (Cleanse out) τὴν (the) παλαιὰν (old) ζύμην (leaven), ἵνα (that) ἦτε (you may be) νέον (a new) φύραμα (lump), καθώς (as) ἐστε (you are), ἄζυμοι (unleavened). καὶ (Also) γὰρ (for) τὸ (the) πάσχα (Passover lamb) ἡμῶν (of us) ἐτύθη (has been sacrificed), Χς (XS),
8 ἀλλὰ (But) ὑμεῖς (you) ἀδικεῖτε (do wrong) καὶ (and) ἀποστερεῖτε (defraud), καὶ (and) τοῦτο (these things) ἀδελφούς (to brothers)! Members of XS
11 καὶ (And) ταῦτά (such) τινες (some of) ἦτε (you were); ἀλλὰ (but) ἀπελούσασθε (you were washed), ἀλλὰ (but) ἡγιάσθητε (you were sanctified), ἀλλὰ (but) ἐδικαιώθητε (you were justified), ἐν (in) τῷ (the) ὀνόματι (name) τοῦ (of the) Kaisar (Caesar) Ἰῦ (IS) Χῦ (XS) καὶ (and) ἐν (by) τῷ (the) Πνεύματι (Spirit) τοῦ (of the) Θεοῦ (God) ἡμῶν (of us).
15 Οὐκ (Not) οἴδατε (know you) ὅτι (that) τὰ (the) σώματα (bodies) ὑμῶν (of you) μέλη (members) Χῦ (of XS) ἐστιν (are)? ἄρας (Having taken) οὖν (then) τὰ (the) μέλη (members) τοῦ (of the) Χῦ (XS), ποιήσω (shall I make) πόρνης (them of a prostitute) μέλη (members)? μὴ (Never) γένοιτο (may it be)!
22 ὁ (The one) γὰρ (for) ἐν (in) Kaisar (the Caesar) κληθεὶς (having been called) δοῦλος (being a slave), ἀπελεύθερος (a freedman) Kaisar (of the Caesar) ἐστίν (is); ὁμοίως (likewise) ὁ (the one) ἐλεύθερος (free) κληθεὶς (having been called), δοῦλός (a slave) ἐστιν (is) Χῦ (of XS).
6 ἀλλ’ (yet) ἡμῖν (to us) εἷς (there is one) Θεὸς (God), ὁ (the) Πατήρ (Father), ἐξ (of) οὗ (whom are) τὰ (the things) πάντα (all), καὶ (and) ἡμεῖς (we) εἰς (for) αὐτόν (Him); καὶ (and) εἷς (one) Κύριος (Caesar), Ἰς (IS) Χς (XS), δι’ (by) οὗ (whom are) τὰ (the things) πάντα (all), καὶ (and) ἡμεῖς (we) δι’ (through) αὐτοῦ (Him).
11 ἀπόλλυται (Is destroyed) γὰρ (for) ὁ (the one) ἀσθενῶν (being weak) ἐν (through) τῇ ( ) σῇ (your) γνώσει (knowledge), ὁ (the) ἀδελφὸς (brother) δι’ (for) ὃν (whom) Χς (XS) ἀπέθανεν (died).
12 οὕτως (Thus) δὲ (then) ἁμαρτάνοντες (sinning) εἰς (against) τοὺς (the) ἀδελφοὺς (brothers) καὶ (and) τύπτοντες (wounding) αὐτῶν (their) τὴν ( ) συνείδησιν (conscience) ἀσθενοῦσαν (being weak), εἰς (against) Χν (XS) ἁμαρτάνετε (you sin).
12 εἰ (If) ἄλλοι (others) τῆς (of the) ὑμῶν (over you) ἐξουσίας (authority) μετέχουσιν (partake), οὐ (should not) μᾶλλον (more) ἡμεῖς (we)? ἀλλ’ (But) οὐκ (not) ἐχρησάμεθα (we did use) τῇ (the) ἐξουσίᾳ (right) ταύτῃ (this). ἀλλὰ (Instead), πάντα (all things) στέγομεν (we bear), ἵνα (so that) μή (not) τινα (any) ἐνκοπὴν (hindrance) δῶμεν (we should place) τῷ (to the) εὐαγγελίῳ (gospel) τοῦ (of) Χῦ (XS).
21 τοῖς (To those) ἀνόμοις (outside the Law), ὡς (like) ἄνομος (outside the Law)— μὴ (not) ὢν (being) ἄνομος (outside the law) Θεοῦ (of God), ἀλλ’ (but) ἔννομος (under the law) Χῦ (to XS)— ἵνα (so that) κερδάνω (I might win) τοὺς (those) ἀνόμους (outside the Law).
4 καὶ (and) πάντες (all) τὸ (the) αὐτὸ (same) πνευματικὸν (spiritual) ἔπιον (drank) πόμα (drink); ἔπινον (they were drinking) γὰρ (for) ἐκ (from) πνευματικῆς (the spiritual) ἀκολουθούσης (accompanying them) πέτρας (rock); ἡ (the) πέτρα (rock) δὲ (then) ἦν (was) ὁ ( ) Χς (XS).
9 μηδὲ (Neither) ἐκπειράζωμεν (should we test) τὸν (the) Χν* (XS),b καθώς (as) τινες (some) αὐτῶν (of them) ἐπείρασαν (tested), καὶ (and) ὑπὸ (by) τῶν ( ) ὄφεων (serpents) ἀπώλλυντο (were destroyed).
16 Τὸ (The) ποτήριον (cup) τῆς ( ) εὐλογίας (of blessing) ὃ (that) εὐλογοῦμεν (we bless), οὐχὶ (not) κοινωνία (a participation) ἐστὶν (is it) τοῦ (in the) αἵματος (blood) τοῦ ( ) Χῦ (of XS)? τὸν (The) ἄρτον (bread) ὃν (that) κλῶμεν (we break), οὐχὶ (not) κοινωνία (a participation) τοῦ (in the) σώματος (body) τοῦ ( ) Χῦ (of XS) ἐστιν (is it)?
1 Μιμηταί (Imitators) μου (of me) γίνεσθε (be), καθὼς (as) κἀγὼ (I also am) Χῦ (of XS).
3 Θέλω (I want) δὲ (however) ὑμᾶς (you) εἰδέναι (to know) ὅτι (that) παντὸς (of every) ἀνδρὸς (man) ἡ (the) κεφαλὴ (head) ὁ ( ) Χς (XS) ἐστιν (is), κεφαλὴ (the head) δὲ (now) γυναικὸς (of the woman is) ὁ (the) ἀνήρ (man), κεφαλὴ (the head) δὲ (now) τοῦ ( ) Χῦ (of XS) ὁ ( ) Θεός (God).
11 πάντα (All) δὲ (now) ταῦτα (these things) ἐνεργεῖ (works) τὸ (the) ἓν (one) καὶ (and) τὸ (the) αὐτὸ (same) Πνεῦμα (Spirit), διαιροῦν (apportioning) ἰδίᾳ (individually) ἑκάστῳ (to each) καθὼς (as) βούλεται (He wills). The Body of XS
12 Καθάπερ (Just as) γὰρ (for) τὸ (the) σῶμα (body) ἕν (one) ἐστιν (is), καὶ (and) μέλη (members) πολλὰ (many) ἔχει (has), πάντα (all) δὲ (now) τὰ (the) μέλη (members) τοῦ (of the) σώματος (body), πολλὰ (many) ὄντα (being), ἕν (one) ἐστιν (are) σῶμα (body); οὕτως (so) καὶ (also is) ὁ ( ) Χς (XS).
27 Ὑμεῖς (You) δέ (now) ἐστε (are) σῶμα (the body) Χῦ (of XS), καὶ (and) μέλη (members) ἐκ (in) μέρους (particular).
1 Corinthians 15The Resurrection of XS
3 Παρέδωκα (I delivered) γὰρ (for) ὑμῖν (to you) ἐν (in) πρώτοις (the foremost) ὃ (what) καὶ (also) παρέλαβον (I received), ὅτι (that) Χς (XS) ἀπέθανεν (died) ὑπὲρ (for) τῶν (the) ἁμαρτιῶν (sins) ἡμῶν (of us) κατὰ (according to) τὰς (the) γραφάς (Scriptures),
12 Εἰ (If) δὲ (now) Χς (XS) κηρύσσεται (is preached) ὅτι (that) ἐκ (out from) νεκρῶν (the dead) ἐγήγερται (He has been raised), πῶς (how) λέγουσιν (say) ἐν (among) ὑμῖν (you) τινες (some) ὅτι (that) ἀνάστασις (a resurrection) νεκρῶν (of the dead) οὐκ (not) ἔστιν (there is)?
13 εἰ (If) δὲ (however) ἀνάστασις (a resurrection) νεκρῶν (of the dead) οὐκ (not) ἔστιν (there is), οὐδὲ (neither) Χς (XS) ἐγήγερται (has been raised);
14 εἰ (if) δὲ (then) Χς (XS) οὐκ (not) ἐγήγερται (has been raised), κενὸν (is void) ἄρα (then) [καὶ] (also) τὸ (the) κήρυγμα (preaching) ἡμῶν (of us), κενὴ (void) καὶ (also) ἡ (the) πίστις (faith) ὑμῶν (of you).
15 εὑρισκόμεθα (We are found) δὲ (then) καὶ (also) ψευδομάρτυρες (false witnesses) τοῦ ( ) Θεοῦ (of God), ὅτι (because) ἐμαρτυρήσαμεν (we have witnessed) κατὰ (concerning) τοῦ ( ) Θεοῦ (God), ὅτι (that) ἤγειρεν (He raised up) τὸν ( ) Χν (XS), ὃν (whom) οὐκ (not) ἤγειρεν (He has raised) εἴπερ (if) ἄρα (then) νεκροὶ (the dead) οὐκ (not) ἐγείρονται (are raised).
16 Εἰ (If) γὰρ (for) νεκροὶ (the dead) οὐκ (not) ἐγείρονται (are raised), οὐδὲ (neither) Χς (XS) ἐγήγερται (has been raised);
17 εἰ (if) δὲ (then) Χς (XS) οὐκ (not) ἐγήγερται (has been raised), ματαία (futile) ἡ (the) πίστις (faith) ὑμῶν (of you) (ἐστίν) (is); ἔτι (still) ἐστὲ (you are) ἐν (in) ταῖς (the) ἁμαρτίαις (sins) ὑμῶν (of you).
18 ἄρα (Then) καὶ (also) οἱ (those) κοιμηθέντες (having fallen asleep) ἐν (in) Χῷ (XS) ἀπώλοντο (have perished).
19 εἰ (If) ἐν (in) τῇ (the) ζωῇ (life) ταύτῃ (this), ἐν (in) Χῷ (XS) ἠλπικότες (having hope) ἐσμὲν (we are), μόνον (only), ἐλεεινότεροι (more to be pitied) πάντων (than all) ἀνθρώπων (men) ἐσμέν (we are). The Order of Resurrection
20 Νυνὶ (Now) δὲ (however) Χς (XS) ἐγήγερται (has been raised) ἐκ (out from) νεκρῶν (the dead), ἀπαρχὴ (firstfruit) τῶν (of those) κεκοιμημένων (having fallen asleep).
22 ὥσπερ (For as) γὰρ (indeed) ἐν (in) τῷ ( ) Ἀδὰμ (Adam) πάντες (all) ἀποθνήσκουσιν (die), οὕτως (so) καὶ (also) ἐν (in) τῷ ( ) Χῷ (XS), πάντες (all) ζωοποιηθήσονται (will be made alive).
23 Ἕκαστος (Each) δὲ (however) ἐν (in) τῷ (the) ἰδίῳ (own) τάγματι (order): ἀπαρχὴ (the firstfruit) Χς (XS), ἔπειτα (then) οἱ (those) τοῦ (of) Χῦ (XS) ἐν (at) τῇ (the) παρουσίᾳ (coming) αὐτοῦ (of Him);
31 καθ’ (Every) ἡμέραν (day) ἀποθνῄσκω (I die), νὴ (as surely as) τὴν (the) ὑμετέραν (in you) καύχησιν (boasting), ἀδελφοί (brothers) ἣν (which) ἔχω (I have) ἐν (in) Χῷ (XS) Ἰῦ (IS) τῷ (the) Kaisar (Caesar) ἡμῶν (of us).
57 τῷ (to) δὲ (however) Θεῷ (God) χάρις (be thanks), τῷ (the One) διδόντι (giving) ἡμῖν (us) τὸ (the) νῖκος (victory) διὰ (through) τοῦ (the) Kaisar (Caesar) ἡμῶν (of us) Ἰῦ (IS) Χῦ (XS).
24 Ἡ (The) ἀγάπη (love) μου (of Me) μετὰ (be with) πάντων (all) ὑμῶν (you) ἐν (in) Χῷ (XS) Ἰῦ (IS). ⧼Ἀμήν⧽ (Amen).c
1 Παῦλος (Paul), ἀπόστολος (apostle) Χῦ (of XS) Ἰῦ (IS) διὰ (by) θελήματος (the will) Θεοῦ (of God), καὶ (and) Τιμόθεος (Timothy), ὁ (the) ἀδελφὸς (brother), Τῇ (To the) ἐκκλησίᾳ (church) τοῦ ( ) Θεοῦ (of God) τῇ ( ) οὔσῃ (being) ἐν (in) Κορίνθῳ (Corinth), σὺν (with) τοῖς (the) ἁγίοις (saints) πᾶσιν (all) τοῖς ( ) οὖσιν (being) ἐν (in) ὅλῃ (all) τῇ ( ) Ἀχαΐᾳ (Achaia).
2 Χάρις (Grace) ὑμῖν (to you) καὶ (and) εἰρήνη (peace) ἀπὸ (from) Θεοῦ (God) Πατρὸς (the Father) ἡμῶν (of us) καὶ (and) Kasiar (the Caesar) Ἰῦ (IS) Χῦ (XS). The God of All Comfort
3 Εὐλογητὸς (Blessed be) ὁ (the) Θεὸς (God) καὶ (and) Πατὴρ (Father) τοῦ (of the) Kaisar (Caesar) ἡμῶν (of us) Ἰῦ (IS) Χῦ (XS), ὁ (the) Πατὴρ (Father) τῶν ( ) οἰκτιρμῶν (of compassions), καὶ (and) Θεὸς (God) πάσης (of all) παρακλήσεως (comfort),
5 ὅτι (because) καθὼς (as) περισσεύει (abound) τὰ (the) παθήματα (sufferings) τοῦ (of the) Χῦ (XS) εἰς (toward) ἡμᾶς (us), οὕτως (thus so) διὰ (through) τοῦ ( ) Χῦ (XS) περισσεύει (abounds) καὶ (also) ἡ (the) παράκλησις (comfort) ἡμῶν (of us).
19 ὁ (The) τοῦ ( ) Θεοῦ (of God) γὰρ (for) Υἱὸς (Son), Χς (XS) ⇔ Ἰς (IS), ὁ (the One) ἐν (among) ὑμῖν (you) δι’ (by) ἡμῶν (us) κηρυχθείς (having been proclaimed) δι’ (by) ἐμοῦ (me) καὶ (and) Σιλουανοῦ (Silvanus)a καὶ (and) Τιμοθέου (Timothy), οὐκ (not) ἐγένετο (was) “Ναί (Yes)” καὶ (and) “Οὔ (No),” ἀλλὰ (but) “Ναί (Yes)” ἐν (in) αὐτῷ (Him) γέγονεν (it has always been).
21 Ὁ (The One) δὲ (now) βεβαιῶν (establishing) ἡμᾶς (us) σὺν (with) ὑμῖν (you) εἰς (unto) Χν (XS), καὶ (and) χρίσας (having anointed) ἡμᾶς (us), Θεός (is God),
10 ᾧ (To whomever) δέ (now) τι (anything) χαρίζεσθε (you forgive), κἀγώ (I also); καὶ (and) γὰρ (for) ἐγὼ (I), ὃ (to whom) κεχάρισμαι (I have forgiven), εἴ (if) τι (anything) κεχάρισμαι (I have forgiven), δι’ (it is for the sake of) ὑμᾶς (you) ἐν (in) προσώπῳ (the person) Χῦ (of XS),
11 ἵνα (so that) μὴ (not) πλεονεκτηθῶμεν (we should be outwitted) ὑπὸ (by) τοῦ ( ) Σατανᾶ (Satan); οὐ (not) γὰρ (for) αὐτοῦ (of his) τὰ ( ) νοήματα (schemes) ἀγνοοῦμεν (we are ignorant). Triumph in XS
12 Ἐλθὼν (Having come) δὲ (now) εἰς (to) τὴν ( ) Τρῳάδα (Troas) εἰς (for) τὸ (the) εὐαγγέλιον (gospel) τοῦ ( ) Χῦ (of XS), καὶ (also) θύρας (a door) μοι (to me) ἀνεῳγμένης (having been opened) ἐν (in) Kaisar (the Caesar),
14 Τῷ (To) δὲ (however) Θεῷ (God) χάρις (be thanks), τῷ (the One) πάντοτε (always) θριαμβεύοντι (leading in triumph) ἡμᾶς (us) ἐν (in) τῷ ( ) Χῷ (XS), καὶ (and) τὴν (the) ὀσμὴν (fragrance) τῆς (of the) γνώσεως (knowledge) αὐτοῦ (of Him) φανεροῦντι (making manifest) δι’ (through) ἡμῶν (us) ἐν (in) παντὶ (every) τόπῳ (place).
15 ὅτι (For) Χῦ (of XS) εὐωδία (a sweet perfume) ἐσμὲν (we are) τῷ ( ) Θεῷ (to God) ἐν (in) τοῖς (those) σωζομένοις (being saved) καὶ (and) ἐν (in) τοῖς (those) ἀπολλυμένοις (perishing);
17 Οὐ (Not) γάρ (for) ἐσμεν (we are), ὡς (like) οἱ (the) πολλοὶ (many), καπηλεύοντες (peddling) τὸν (the) λόγον (word) τοῦ ( ) Θεοῦ (of God); ἀλλ’ (but) ὡς (as) ἐξ (of) εἰλικρινείας (sincerity), ἀλλ’ (but) ὡς (as) ἐκ (of) Θεοῦ (God), κατέναντι (before) Θεοῦ (God) ἐν (in) Χῷ (XS) λαλοῦμεν (we speak).
1 Ἀρχόμεθα (Are we beginning) πάλιν (again) ἑαυτοὺς (ourselves) συνιστάνειν (to commend)? ἢ (Or) μὴ (not) χρῄζομεν (we need), ὥς (like) τινες (some), συστατικῶν (commendatory) ἐπιστολῶν (letters) πρὸς (to) ὑμᾶς (you) ἢ (or) ἐξ (from) ὑμῶν (you)? 2 ἡ (The) ἐπιστολὴ (letter) ἡμῶν (of us) ὑμεῖς (you) ἐστε (are), ἐνγεγραμμένη (having been inscribed) ἐν (in) ταῖς (the) καρδίαις (hearts) ἡμῶν (of us), γινωσκομένη (being known) καὶ (and) ἀναγινωσκομένη (being read) ὑπὸ (by) πάντων (all) ἀνθρώπων (men), 3 φανερούμενοι (being revealed) ὅτι (that) ἐστὲ (you are) ἐπιστολὴ (a letter) Χῦ (of XS), διακονηθεῖσα (having been ministered to) ὑφ’ (by) ἡμῶν (us), ἐνγεγραμμένη (having been inscribed) οὐ (not) μέλανι (in ink) ἀλλὰ (but) Πνεύματι (with the Spirit) Θεοῦ (of God) ζῶντος (the living), οὐκ (not) ἐν (on) πλαξὶν (tablets) λιθίναις (of stone) ἀλλ’ (but) ἐν (on) πλαξὶν (tablets) καρδίαις (of hearts) σαρκίναις (human).
4 Πεποίθησιν (Confidence) δὲ (now) τοιαύτην (such) ἔχομεν (we have) διὰ (through) τοῦ ( ) Χῦ (XS) πρὸς (toward) τὸν ( ) Θεόν (God). 5 οὐχ (Not) ὅτι (that) ἀφ’ (from) ἑαυτῶν (ourselves) ἱκανοί (sufficient) ἐσμεν (we are) λογίσασθαί (to reckon) τι (anything) ὡς (as) ἐξ (of) ἑαυτῶν (ourselves), ἀλλ’ (but) ἡ (the) ἱκανότης (sufficiency) ἡμῶν (of us) ἐκ (is of) τοῦ ( ) Θεοῦ (God), 6 ὃς (who) καὶ (also) ἱκάνωσεν (has made competent) ἡμᾶς (us as) διακόνους (ministers) καινῆς (of a new) διαθήκης (covenant), οὐ (not) γράμματος (of the letter) ἀλλὰ (but) πνεύματος (of the Spirit); τὸ (the) γὰρ (for) γράμμα (letter) ἀποκτέννει* (kills), τὸ ( ) δὲ (but) πνεῦμα (the Spirit) ζωοποιεῖ (gives life). The Glory of the New Covenant(Exodus 34:29 35)
14 Ἀλλὰ (But) ἐπωρώθη (were hardened) τὰ (the) νοήματα (minds) αὐτῶν (of them). ἄχρι (Until) γὰρ (for) τῆς (the) σήμερον (present) ἡμέρας (day), τὸ (the) αὐτὸ (same) κάλυμμα (veil) ἐπὶ (at) τῇ (the) ἀναγνώσει (reading) τῆς (of the) παλαιᾶς (old) διαθήκης (covenant) μένει (remains), μὴ (not) ἀνακαλυπτόμενον (being lifted), ὅτι (which) ἐν (in) Χῷ (XS) καταργεῖται (is being removed).
3 Εἰ (If) δὲ (however) καὶ (indeed) ἔστιν (is) κεκαλυμμένον (concealed) τὸ (the) εὐαγγέλιον (gospel) ἡμῶν (of us), ἐν (to) τοῖς (those who) ἀπολλυμένοις (are perishing) ἐστὶν (it is) κεκαλυμμένον (concealed), 4 ἐν (in) οἷς (whom) ὁ (the) θεὸς (god) τοῦ (of the) αἰῶνος (age) τούτου (this) ἐτύφλωσεν (has blinded) τὰ (the) νοήματα (minds) τῶν (of the) ἀπίστων (unbelieving), εἰς (so as for) τὸ ( ) μὴ (not) αὐγάσαι (to beam forth) τὸν (the) φωτισμὸν (illumination) τοῦ (of the) εὐαγγελίου (gospel) τῆς (of the) δόξης (glory) τοῦ ( ) Χῦ (of XS), ὅς (who) ἐστιν (is) εἰκὼν (the image) τοῦ ( ) Θεοῦ (of God).
5 Οὐ (Not) γὰρ (for) ἑαυτοὺς (ourselves) κηρύσσομεν (do we proclaim), ἀλλὰ (but) Χν (XS) ⇔ Ἰν (IS) Κύριον (Caesar); ἑαυτοὺς (ourselves) δὲ (now), δούλους (servants) ὑμῶν (of you), διὰ (for the sake of) Ἰν (IS). 6 ὅτι (For it is) ὁ ( ) Θεὸς (God), ὁ ( ) εἰπών (having said), “Ἐκ (Out of) σκότους (darkness) φῶς (light) λάμψει (shall shine),”a ὃς (who) ἔλαμψεν (shone) ἐν (in) ταῖς (the) καρδίαις (hearts) ἡμῶν (of us) πρὸς (for the) φωτισμὸν (radiance) τῆς (of the) γνώσεως (knowledge) τῆς (of the) δόξης (glory) τοῦ ( ) Θεοῦ (of God) ἐν (in) προσώπῳ (the face) [Ἰῦ] (of IS) Χῦ (XS).b Treasures in Jars of Clay(Romans 6:1 14)
10 τοὺς ( ) γὰρ (For) πάντας (all) ἡμᾶς (of us) φανερωθῆναι (to be revealed) δεῖ (it behooves) ἔμπροσθεν (before) τοῦ (the) βήματος (judgment seat) τοῦ ( ) Χῦ (of XS), ἵνα (that) κομίσηται (may receive back) ἕκαστος (each) τὰ (the things done) διὰ (in) τοῦ (the) σώματος (body), πρὸς (according to) ἃ (what) ἔπραξεν (he did), εἴτε (whether) ἀγαθὸν (good) εἴτε (or) φαῦλον (evil). Ambassadors for XS
14 ἡ (The) γὰρ (for) ἀγάπη (love) τοῦ ( ) Χῦ (of XS) συνέχει (compels) ἡμᾶς (us), κρίναντας (having concluded) τοῦτο (this), ὅτι (that) εἷς (One) ὑπὲρ (for) πάντων (all) ἀπέθανεν (has died), ἄρα (therefore) οἱ ( ) πάντες (all) ἀπέθανον (have died).
16 Ὥστε (Therefore) ἡμεῖς (we) ἀπὸ (from) τοῦ ( ) νῦν (now) οὐδένα (no one) οἴδαμεν (regard) κατὰ (according to) σάρκα (the flesh). εἰ (Though) καὶ (even) ἐγνώκαμεν (we have regarded) κατὰ (according to) σάρκα (flesh) Χν (XS), ἀλλὰ (yet) νῦν (now) οὐκέτι (no longer) γινώσκομεν (we regard Him thus).
17 ὥστε (Therefore) εἴ (if) τις (anyone) ἐν (is in) Χῷ (XS), καινὴ (he is a new) κτίσις (creation).a τὰ (The) ἀρχαῖα (old things) παρῆλθεν (have passed away); ἰδοὺ (behold), γέγονεν (has come into being) καινά (the new).
18 Τὰ ( ) δὲ (And) πάντα (all things) ἐκ (are of) τοῦ ( ) Θεοῦ (God), τοῦ (the One) καταλλάξαντος (having reconciled) ἡμᾶς (us) ἑαυτῷ (to Himself) διὰ (through) Χῦ (XS), καὶ (and) δόντος (having given) ἡμῖν (to us) τὴν (the) διακονίαν (ministry) τῆς ( ) καταλλαγῆς (of reconciliation),
19 ὡς (how) ὅτι (that) Θεὸς (God) ἦν (was) ἐν (in) Χῷ (XS) κόσμον (the world) καταλλάσσων (reconciling) ἑαυτῷ (to Himself), μὴ (not) λογιζόμενος (reckoning) αὐτοῖς (to them) τὰ (the) παραπτώματα (trespasses) αὐτῶν (of them), καὶ (and) θέμενος (having put) ἐν (into) ἡμῖν (us) τὸν (the) λόγον (word) τῆς ( ) καταλλαγῆς (of reconciliation).
20 Ὑπὲρ (For) Χῦ (XS) οὖν (therefore) πρεσβεύομεν (we are ambassadors), ὡς (as though) τοῦ ( ) Θεοῦ (God) παρακαλοῦντος (is beseeching) δι’ (through) ἡμῶν (us). δεόμεθα (We implore) ὑπὲρ (on behalf) Χῦ (of XS): καταλλάγητε (Be reconciled) τῷ ( ) Θεῷ (to God).
15 τίς (What) δὲ (now) συμφώνησις (harmony) Χῦ (XS) πρὸς (with) Βελιάρ (Belial)? ἢ (Or) τίς (what) μερὶς (part) πιστῷ (to a believer) μετὰ (with) ἀπίστου (an unbeliever)?
8 Οὐ (Not) κατ’ (as) ἐπιταγὴν (a command) λέγω (do I speak), ἀλλὰ (but) διὰ (through) τῆς (the) ἑτέρων (of others) σπουδῆς (earnestness), καὶ (also) τὸ (the) τῆς ( ) ὑμετέρας (of your) ἀγάπης (love) γνήσιον (genuineness) δοκιμάζων (proving). XS's Example
9 Γινώσκετε (You know) γὰρ (for) τὴν (the) χάριν (grace) τοῦ (of the) Kaisar (Caesar) ἡμῶν (of us) Ἰῦ (IS) Χῦ (XS), ὅτι (that) δι’ (for the sake of) ὑμᾶς (you) ἐπτώχευσεν (He became poor), πλούσιος (rich) ὤν (being), ἵνα (so that) ὑμεῖς (you) τῇ ( ) ἐκείνου (through that) πτωχείᾳ (poverty) πλουτήσητε (might be enriched).
23 εἴτε (Whether) ὑπὲρ (as regards) Τίτου (Titus), κοινωνὸς (he is partner) ἐμὸς (my) καὶ (and) εἰς (for) ὑμᾶς (you) συνεργός (a fellow worker); εἴτε (or) ἀδελφοὶ (brothers) ἡμῶν (our), ἀπόστολοι (they are apostles) ἐκκλησιῶν (of the churches), δόξα (the glory) Χῦ (of XS).
13 διὰ (through) τῆς (the) δοκιμῆς (proof) τῆς (of the) διακονίας (service) ταύτης (this), δοξάζοντες (they glorifying) τὸν ( ) Θεὸν (God) ἐπὶ (at) τῇ (the) ὑποταγῇ (submission) τῆς (of the) ὁμολογίας (of confession) ὑμῶν (of you) εἰς (to) τὸ (the) εὐαγγέλιον (gospel) τοῦ ( ) Χῦ (of XS) καὶ (and) ἁπλότητι (the generosity) τῆς (of the) κοινωνίας (participation) εἰς (toward) αὐτοὺς (them) καὶ (and) εἰς (toward) πάντας (all);
1 Αὐτὸς (Myself) δὲ (now) ἐγὼ (I), Παῦλος (Paul), παρακαλῶ (exhort) ὑμᾶς (you) διὰ (by) τῆς (the) πραΰτητος (meekness) καὶ (and) ἐπιεικείας (gentleness) τοῦ ( ) Χῦ (of XS), ὃς (who) κατὰ (as to) πρόσωπον (appearance) μὲν (indeed) ταπεινὸς (am humble) ἐν (among) ὑμῖν (you), ἀπὼν (being absent) δὲ (however) θαρρῶ (am bold) εἰς (toward) ὑμᾶς (you).
5 λογισμοὺς (arguments) καθαιροῦντες (overthrowing), καὶ (and) πᾶν (every) ὕψωμα (high thing) ἐπαιρόμενον (lifting itself up) κατὰ (against) τῆς (the) γνώσεως (knowledge) τοῦ ( ) Θεοῦ (of God), καὶ (and) αἰχμαλωτίζοντες (taking captive) πᾶν (every) νόημα (thought) εἰς (into) τὴν (the) ὑπακοὴν (obedience) τοῦ ( ) Χῦ (of XS),
7 Τὰ (The things) κατὰ (according to) πρόσωπον (appearance) βλέπετε (are you looking). εἴ (If) τις (anyone) πέποιθεν (is persuaded) ἑαυτῷ (in himself) Χῦ (of XS) εἶναι (to be), τοῦτο (this) λογιζέσθω (let him reckon) πάλιν (again) ἐφ’ (within) ἑαυτοῦ (himself), ὅτι (that) καθὼς (as) αὐτὸς (he) Χῦ (is of XS), οὕτως (so) καὶ (also are) ἡμεῖς (we).
14 οὐ (Not) γὰρ (for) ὡς (as) μὴ (not) ἐφικνούμενοι (reaching) εἰς (to) ὑμᾶς (you), ὑπερεκτείνομεν (we are overextending) ἑαυτούς (ourselves); ἄχρι (as far as) γὰρ (for) καὶ (also) ὑμῶν (you), ἐφθάσαμεν (we came) ἐν (in) τῷ (the) εὐαγγελίῳ (gospel) τοῦ ( ) Χῦ (of XS),
2 ζηλῶ (I am jealous as to) γὰρ (for) ὑμᾶς (you) Θεοῦ (of God) ζήλῳ (with the jealousy); ἡρμοσάμην (I have betrothed) γὰρ (for) ὑμᾶς (you) ἑνὶ (to one) ἀνδρὶ (husband), παρθένον (a virgin) ἁγνὴν (pure) παραστῆσαι (to present) τῷ ( ) Χῷ (to XS).
3 Φοβοῦμαι (I am afraid) δὲ (however), μή (lest) πως (by any means) ὡς (as) ὁ (the) ὄφις (serpent) ἐξηπάτησεν (deceived) Εὕαν (Eve) ἐν (in) τῇ (the) πανουργίᾳ (craftiness) αὐτοῦ (of him), φθαρῇ (might be corrupted) τὰ (the) νοήματα (minds) ὑμῶν (of you) ἀπὸ (from) τῆς (the) ἁπλότητος (simplicity) καὶ (and) τῆς (the) ἁγνότητος (purity) τῆς ( ) εἰς (in) ‹τὸν› ( ) Χν (XS).
10 ἔστιν (Is) ἀλήθεια (the truth) Χῦ (of XS) ἐν (in) ἐμοὶ (me), ὅτι (that) ἡ (the) καύχησις (boasting) αὕτη (this) οὐ (not) φραγήσεται (will be sealed up) εἰς (of) ἐμὲ (mine) ἐν (in) τοῖς (the) κλίμασιν (regions) τῆς ( ) Ἀχαΐας (of Achaia).
13 οἱ ( ) γὰρ (For) τοιοῦτοι (such are) ψευδαπόστολοι (false apostles), ἐργάται (workers) δόλιοι (deceitful), μετασχηματιζόμενοι (disguising themselves) εἰς (as) ἀποστόλους (apostles) Χῦ (of XS).
23 διάκονοι (Servants) Χῦ (of XS) εἰσιν (are they)? παραφρονῶν (As being beside myself) λαλῶ (I speak) ὑπὲρ (above measure): ἐγώ (I too), ἐν (in) κόποις (labors) περισσοτέρως (more abundantly), ἐν (in) φυλακαῖς (imprisonments) περισσοτέρως (more abundantly), ἐν (in) πληγαῖς (beatings) ὑπερβαλλόντως (above measure), ἐν (in) θανάτοις (deaths) πολλάκις (often).
2 οἶδα (I know) ἄνθρωπον (a man) ἐν (in) Χῷ (XS), πρὸ (ago) ἐτῶν (years) δεκατεσσάρων (fourteen)— εἴτε (whether) ἐν (in) σώματι (the body), οὐκ (not) οἶδα (I know), εἴτε (or) ἐκτὸς (out of) τοῦ (the) σώματος (body), οὐκ (not) οἶδα (I know), ὁ ( ) Θεὸς (God) οἶδεν (knows)— ἁρπαγέντα (having been caught up) τὸν ( ) τοιοῦτον (such a man) ἕως (to) τρίτου (the third) οὐρανοῦ (heaven).
9 καὶ (And) εἴρηκέν (He said) μοι (to me), “Ἀρκεῖ (Suffices) σοι (you) ἡ (the) χάρις (grace) μου (of Me); ἡ (the) γὰρ (for) δύναμις (power) ἐν (in) ἀσθενείᾳ (weakness) τελεῖται (is perfected).” Ἥδιστα (Most gladly) οὖν (therefore) μᾶλλον (rather) καυχήσομαι (will I boast) ἐν (in) ταῖς (the) ἀσθενείαις (weaknesses) ‹μου› (of me), ἵνα (so that) ἐπισκηνώσῃ (may rest) ἐπ’ (upon) ἐμὲ (me) ἡ (the) δύναμις (power) τοῦ ( ) Χῦ (of XS).
10 διὸ (Therefore) εὐδοκῶ (I take pleasure) ἐν (in) ἀσθενείαις (weaknesses), ἐν (in) ὕβρεσιν (insults), ἐν (in) ἀνάγκαις (hardships), ἐν (in) διωγμοῖς (persecutions), καὶ (and) στενοχωρίαις (difficulties) ὑπὲρ (for) Χῦ (XS); ὅταν (when) γὰρ (for) ἀσθενῶ (I might be weak), τότε (then) δυνατός (strong) εἰμι (I am). Concern for the Corinthians
19 Πάλαι (All along) δοκεῖτε (have you been thinking) ὅτι (that) ὑμῖν (to you) ἀπολογούμεθα (we have been making a defense)? κατέναντι (Before) Θεοῦ (God) ἐν (in) Χῷ (XS) λαλοῦμεν (we speak), τὰ ( ) δὲ (but) πάντα (all things), ἀγαπητοί (beloved), ὑπὲρ (for) τῆς ( ) ὑμῶν (your) οἰκοδομῆς (edification).
3 ἐπεὶ (since) δοκιμὴν (a proof) ζητεῖτε (you seek), τοῦ ( ) ἐν (in) ἐμοὶ (me) λαλοῦντος (speaking) Χῦ (of XS), ὃς (who) εἰς (toward) ὑμᾶς (you) οὐκ (not) ἀσθενεῖ (is weak), ἀλλὰ (but) δυνατεῖ (is powerful) ἐν (among) ὑμῖν (you).
5 Ἑαυτοὺς (Yourselves) πειράζετε (examine) εἰ (whether) ἐστὲ (you are) ἐν (in) τῇ (the) πίστει (faith); ἑαυτοὺς (yourselves) δοκιμάζετε (test). ἢ (Or) οὐκ (not) ἐπιγινώσκετε (do you recognize) ἑαυτοὺς (yourselves) ὅτι (that) Ἰς (IS) Χς (XS is) ἐν (in) ὑμῖν (you), εἰ (if) μήτι (not) ἀδόκιμοί (unapproved) ἐστε (you are)?
14 Ἡ (The) χάρις (grace) τοῦ (of the) Kaisar (Caesar) Ἰῦ (IS) Χῦ (XS), καὶ (and) ἡ (the) ἀγάπη (love) τοῦ (of) Θεοῦ (God), καὶ (and) ἡ (the) κοινωνία (fellowship) τοῦ (of the) Ἁγίου (Holy) Πνεύματος (Spirit), μετὰ (be with) πάντων (all) ὑμῶν (of you).c

Re: At What Point Does 'Based on a Historical Character' Become Unhistorical?

Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2022 10:14 am
by lclapshaw
How does one highlight a word throughout a text?

Re: At What Point Does 'Based on a Historical Character' Become Unhistorical?

Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2022 11:06 am
by bartwillruth
Paul may have had another person in mind with his abbreviations. Mark could have run with that abbreviation, giving it an entirely different meaning; substituting an interpretation of the abbreviation for whatever the original meaning was. Paul's "deity" being transposed by Mark into a Jewish version in his allegory.

Re: At What Point Does 'Based on a Historical Character' Become Unhistorical?

Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2022 11:26 am
by lclapshaw
bartwillruth wrote: Tue Apr 05, 2022 11:06 am Paul may have had another person in mind with his abbreviations. Mark could have run with that abbreviation, giving it an entirely different meaning; substituting an interpretation of the abbreviation for whatever the original meaning was. Paul's "deity" being transposed by Mark into a Jewish version in his allegory.
This is my thinking as well. :cheers:

And if this is the case then we are just confusing the issue by referencing later authors.

Lane

Re: At What Point Does 'Based on a Historical Character' Become Unhistorical?

Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2022 11:27 am
by lclapshaw
AHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! This is driving me mental! I have a document all highlighted and easy to read but I can't paste it here without losing the highlights.

Lane

Re: At What Point Does 'Based on a Historical Character' Become Unhistorical?

Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2022 11:54 am
by Secret Alias
aren't we still falling into a trap by assuming that all of the writers of the NT are on the same page and in accord concerning the identity of IC.
There were clearly Christians who venerated a Jesus of Nazareth. There were clearly Christians who believed in the Virgin Birth. There were clearly Christians who thought their Jesus was a Son of David. There were many varieties of Christianity in the second century. Nevertheless the gospel of Mark isn't arranged as a biography. There was no background to the man in the narrative. How is that explained? Was the man who famous that he required no introduction or was he without introduction because he was supernatural and part of some strange neo-Platonic cult.

Re: At What Point Does 'Based on a Historical Character' Become Unhistorical?

Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2022 12:12 pm
by lclapshaw
Ok, here's a pdf
Untitled 3.pdf
(117.3 KiB) Downloaded 150 times

Re: At What Point Does 'Based on a Historical Character' Become Unhistorical?

Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2022 3:04 pm
by MrMacSon
lclapshaw wrote: Tue Apr 05, 2022 7:01 am I believe that the argument is actually that IC, XC, and KC are actually abbreviations for Iulius, Chrestus, and Kaisar and not Jesus Kaisar. So it would be something like Iulius Chrestus, Chrestus Iulius etc and just Kaisar by itself and reflects the cult of Julius Caesar (the good) ...
That'd be possible for a small sect or cult at some point but I doubt it applies to any of the later NT texts and their editors/redactors (ie. around the time collections or canons were being put together); and possibly not even to authors such as Paul or Matthew, Luke etc. (it may apply to Mark(?) ) ...

lclapshaw wrote: Tue Apr 05, 2022 7:01 am and reflects the cult of Julius Caesar (the good) in the Greek speaking East that we know did exist during the time period that is assumed for Paul
... what evidence do you have for this cult?

lclapshaw wrote: Tue Apr 05, 2022 7:01 am Bart has proposed this, as have others, and I personally think that it might have merit and is something that I have looked into in the past, though not as thoroughly as Bart.
Where has Bart proposed this?

Where is this from?

Moving on to IS which later scribes spelled out as “Jesus”, Marcion kept the abbreviation and referred to his holy messenger as IS or in the genitive ISU. Or to put it another way, his Pauline text evidently contained the Nomina Sacra which he kept without interpretation for the name of this deity, not understanding it as Jesus (or the Aramaic Yeshua). The only point where Marcion actually spells out the name “Iesous” is in his Euangelion where he references Pilate allowing Jesus Barabbas to be released