At What Point Does 'Based on a Historical Character' Become Unhistorical?

[MrMacSon]

Where is this from?

Moving on to IS which later scribes spelled out as “Jesus”, Marcion kept the abbreviation and referred to his holy messenger as IS or in the genitive ISU. Or to put it another way, his Pauline text evidently contained the Nomina Sacra which he kept without interpretation for the name of this deity, not understanding it as Jesus (or the Aramaic Yeshua). The only point where Marcion actually spells out the name “Iesous” is in his Euangelion where he references Pilate allowing Jesus Barabbas to be released

Which would have beeen, in the Greek, -

Moving on to IS which later scribes^ spelled out as 'Jesus' [Iesous], Marcion kept the abbreviation and referred to his holy messenger as IS or in the genitive ISU. Or to put it another way, his Pauline text evidently contained the Nomina Sacra which he kept without interpretation for the name of this deity, not understanding it as Jesus [Iesous] (or the Aramaic Yeshua).* The only point where Marcion actually spells out the name “Iesous” is in his Euangelion where he references Pilate allowing Jesus ['Iesous'] Barabbas to be released

* yeah, Nah

^ and, saying 'scribes did it' or "Marcion kept the abbreviation" is spurious or even disingenuous

[MrMacSon]

Far out: saying Marcion's "Pauline text evidently contained the Nomina Sacra which he kept without interpretation for the name of this deity, not understanding it as 'Jesus' " is beyond dumb

Where is this from?

[MrMacSon]

How does one highlight a word throughout a text?

Gotta have the coding ie. [highlihgt*='color']xyz[/highlight] where 'color' = a selected color eg. yellow

* correctly spelt 'highlight,' of course (but if I'd done that here, you wouldn't see it)


Option A
1. Move the cursor across the text to 'select; it (usually holding down the left button on a computer mouse (?))
2. Click the 'ab yellow' thing

toHighlight.PNG (51.04 KiB) Viewed 1608 times

3. if you want, change the 'yellow' in [highlihgt=yellow] to, for example, 'lightgreen', '#efe', 'orange,' etc.
(can be tedious : some colors work better than others (eg. 'lightorange' doesn't work) : 'colour' doesn't work)


Option B
1. Put the relevant text in a word processor such as Microsoft Word
2. Find & Replace

1. Find word eg. 'xyz'
2. Replace with " [highlihgt='color']xyz[/highlight] " with highlight spelt correctly, of course

[lclapshaw]

I believe that the argument is actually that IC, XC, and KC are actually abbreviations for Iulius, Chrestus, and Kaisar and not Jesus Kaisar. So it would be something like Iulius Chrestus, Chrestus Iulius etc and just Kaisar by itself and reflects the cult of Julius Caesar (the good) ...

That'd be possible for a small sect or cult at some point

Exactly!

[lclapshaw]

I believe that the argument is actually that IC, XC, and KC are actually abbreviations for Iulius, Chrestus, and Kaisar and not Jesus Kaisar. So it would be something like Iulius Chrestus, Chrestus Iulius etc and just Kaisar by itself and reflects the cult of Julius Caesar (the good) ...

That'd be possible for a small sect or cult at some point

Exactly!

[bartwillruth]

The cult of Divus Iulius was no small phenomenon. It was official with its own Flamen (the first of whom was Marcus Antonius). It had a temple in Rome and temples spread throughout the empire as Caesarea. It was closely associated with the father of the gods, Jupiter (Ioves). It was tied to a deified Julius Caesar who died and was raised up to the gods. His cult celebrated clemency and was enormously popular in the legions. As with other Roman cults, it was observed with wine and food. Of all the groups devoted to Caesar, the Hellenized Jews were the most fervent. It must be remembered that Caesar had proclaimed dozens of benefits to the Jews (gospels), and had a profound debt of gratitude to them for rescuing him in Egypt when a large Jewish army was sent to join his fight.

[MrMacSon]

The cult of Divus Iulius was no small phenomenon. It was official with its own Flamen (the first of whom was Marcus Antonius). It had a temple in Rome and temples spread throughout the empire as Caesarea. It was closely associated with the father of the gods, Jupiter (Ioves). It was tied to a deified Julius Caesar who died and was raised up to the gods. His cult celebrated clemency and was enormously popular in the legions. As with other Roman cults, it was observed with wine and food. Of all the groups devoted to Caesar, the Hellenized Jews were the most fervent. It must be remembered that Caesar had proclaimed dozens of benefits to the Jews (gospels), and had a profound debt of gratitude to them for rescuing him in Egypt when a large Jewish army was sent to join his fight.

Cheers!

What do you mean by ' (gospels) ' here: "Caesar had proclaimed dozens of benefits to the Jews (gospels)" ?

( 'good news' / 'good tidings' as in 'euangelion' ? as in the term in the Priene Calendar Inscription applied to Julius Caesar's successor, his adoptive son (and great-nephew), Octavius Augustus Caesar ? )

[MrMacSon]

fwiw, this post - viewtopic.php?p=135340#p135340 - may apply to some of the issues here

[bartwillruth]

To MrMacSon: Virtually every military victory, when announced, was a gospel (euangelion). The same is true of general official proclamations. Caesar's many proclamations in favor of the Jews, especially those giving them legal status and protection, were gospels, especially to the beneficiaries. Caesar's clemency toward his enemies was a gospel.

You have it backwards regarding Julius Caesar and Octavian. Julius Caesar was the uncle and adoptive father of Octavian (Augustus). Both were deified, sons of god, god from god, saviors, Lord, and their very existence was a "gospel". Julius Caesar was a dying and rising god-man who was elevated to equality with Jupiter. Peace, clemency, and a requirement for faithfulness to oaths of loyalty were their hallmarks.

Please read my posts at debunking christianity "reassessing Paul's timeline" parts one and two. There is much more there than I can repeat here.

[MrMacSon]

Virtually every military victory, when announced, was a gospel (euangelion). The same is true of general official proclamations. Caesar's many proclamations in favor of the Jews, especially those giving them legal status and protection, were 'gospels.' Caesar's clemency toward his enemies was a gospel.

• Interesting, cheers again.

You have it backwards regarding Julius Caesar and Octavian. Julius Caesar was the uncle and adoptive father of Octavian (Augustus).

• Doh! Will correct

Both were deified, sons of god, god from god, saviors, Lord, and their very existence was a "gospel". Julius Caesar was a dying and rising god-man who was elevated to equality with Jupiter. Peace, clemency, and a requirement for faithfulness to oaths of loyalty were their hallmarks.

• Sure, though afaik Julius Caesar was deified at his death or funeral, so Octavius / Augustus became the first or one of the first, explicit, son/s of [a] god

Please read my posts at debunking christianity "reassessing Paul's timeline" parts one and two. There is much more there than I can repeat here.

• Will do