Heresiology before 325 CE has been forged: NT Apocryphal literature is a Post-Nicene reaction to the NT Bible.

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
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Leucius Charinus
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Re: Heresiology before 325 CE has been forged: NT Apocryphal literature is a Post-Nicene reaction to the NT Bible.

Post by Leucius Charinus »

Secret Alias wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 4:26 pm
The OP argues that the NT apocryphal writings (and the related heresiological writings - Irenaeus et al) did not exist before 325 CE until Constantine published the NT (canonical) literature as a political instrument in the Roman empire.
Why couldn't space aliens have been responsible for the invention of the New Testament canon?
You should google the theories of Stephan Huller who, along with others, run with the proposition that the NT canon was ostensibly invented by a spaceship builder known as the Martian of Sinope.
What evidence do you have that there were fourth century HUMAN inventors of Christianity rather than extraterrestrials?
In regard to century of the invention of either the NT canonical literature or the NT apocryphal literature the 4th century is the terminus ad quem as provided by C14 and the abundance of epigraphic, numismatic, monumental and other archaeological evidence.

In regard to the proposition that the inventors of all this stuff were human the evidence indicates that they were not human. Constantine's supreme rule was a bloodbath. Nobody dared to openly challenge his Christian religious doctrines. Ammianus tells us that “No wild beasts are so deadly to humans as most Christians are to each other.” and describes the first attested Christian state inquisition at Scythopolis at which "numbers without end" were dragged from Alexandria and Antioch for torture and execution.

NT Apocrypha - NTA

Until recent times we have learnt about the history of the NTA and the heretics who authored and preserved this pernicious literature through the writings of the heresiologists such as Irenaeus. A Greek writer, a Bishop of the Church industry, and a Saint of the Church industry, Irenaeus in 2022 CE - this year FFS !!! Thank the Pope - became a Doctor of the Church industry.

Since you spend so much time looking into the time capsule containing the writings of Irenaeus perhaps you can answer this question.

Was Irenaeus a Doctor of the Latin Church industry or the Greek Church industry? All his earliest non fragmentary manuscripts were lovingly preserved by the Latin church industry. When the writings of Irenaeus went through the printing press in 1526 CE, his editor Erasmus swore black and blue Irenaeus was a Latin author.
Secret Alias
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Re: Heresiology before 325 CE has been forged: NT Apocryphal literature is a Post-Nicene reaction to the NT Bible.

Post by Secret Alias »

How do decide between human and extraterrestrial authorship of the fourth century New Testament? What are the strongest arguments for each?
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Leucius Charinus
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Re: Heresiology before 325 CE has been forged: NT Apocryphal literature is a Post-Nicene reaction to the NT Bible.

Post by Leucius Charinus »

Eusebius, the recognised editor-in-chief of the 50 Constantine bibles, was human enough but had an inhuman propensity to indulge in literary fraud.
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Leucius Charinus
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Re: Heresiology before 325 CE has been forged: NT Apocryphal literature is a Post-Nicene reaction to the NT Bible.

Post by Leucius Charinus »

Secret Alias wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 8:04 am
1. how did the Romans all agree to follow a religion that never existed before Constantine?
The same way that (via R. Gmirkin) the Hebrews - Jewish and Samaritan - all agreed to follow a religion that never existed before Ptolemy II. Ditto for Ardashir and Zoroastrianism in the Sassanid Persian empire. Ditto for Muhammad and Islam in the Arabian empire. These book religions all followed civil wars and were implemented by the victorious war lord ("Savior") at the zenith of his military power. In each case the populace followed a top-down coalition-of-the-willing.

Luke 16:16:
The Good News of God's Kingdom Is Proclaimed and Everyone Is Forced into It
Secret Alias
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Re: Heresiology before 325 CE has been forged: NT Apocryphal literature is a Post-Nicene reaction to the NT Bible.

Post by Secret Alias »

So what? There all sorts of theories. The Israelites were African is one theory. I am asking you specifically what you have against an extraterrestrial origin for the 4th century 'forged canon' you propose. The aliens had to also plant one page of the Diatessaron at Dura Europa. Unless you have an alternative explanation to the extraterrestrial theory.
lsayre
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Re: Heresiology before 325 CE has been forged: NT Apocryphal literature is a Post-Nicene reaction to the NT Bible.

Post by lsayre »

Secret Alias wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 9:00 pm How do decide between human and extraterrestrial authorship of the fourth century New Testament? What are the strongest arguments for each?
Remember, no arguments from silence are to be allowed. So just because people didn't go around documenting discussions wherein they were talking about space aliens, that is no reason to presume that they did not routinely do so. :-)
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Re: Heresiology before 325 CE has been forged: NT Apocryphal literature is a Post-Nicene reaction to the NT Bible.

Post by Secret Alias »

You've divined my point. Pete opens the door to some insane ideas but not others. That's the problem with his thesis. And even with his new wrinkle that he accepts that Christianity existed without any sort of written documentation (or whatever moronic text he 'allows' for them to have had). It's just a vanity exercise. Pete the mountainman as gatekeeper of what is acceptable and not acceptable. Silly.
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Leucius Charinus
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Re: Heresiology before 325 CE has been forged: NT Apocryphal literature is a Post-Nicene reaction to the NT Bible.

Post by Leucius Charinus »

lsayre wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 8:52 am
Secret Alias wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 9:00 pm How do decide between human and extraterrestrial authorship of the fourth century New Testament? What are the strongest arguments for each?
Remember, no arguments from silence are to be allowed. So just because people didn't go around documenting discussions wherein they were talking about space aliens, that is no reason to presume that they did not routinely do so. :-)
Maybe you guys should read Richard Carrier's "Jesus from Outer Space: What the Earliest Christians Really Believed about Christ". I have heard he is the expert on extraterrestrial explanations for Christian origins. He seems to have designed a Bayesian construct and applied it to Earl Doherty's ideas. Paul documented his discussions with the space alien Jesus and knew of people who had visited Venus - the 3rd Ptolemaic heaven.
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Leucius Charinus
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Re: Heresiology before 325 CE has been forged: NT Apocryphal literature is a Post-Nicene reaction to the NT Bible.

Post by Leucius Charinus »

Secret Alias wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 8:04 am
The 4th century inventors of orthodoxy stipulated at the Synod of Laodicea that the heretics were the aliens.

2. the importance of angels in early Christianity. Angels are from the sublunar realm. One of the more unusual things about Christianity is the role that angels played in the history of the world.
Our most important information about early Christianity comes from the epistles of "Dear Paul" who is described (by Leucius Charinus no less) as follows:

"a man small in size, bald-headed, bandy-legged, well-built, with eyebrows meeting, rather long-nosed, full of grace. For sometimes he seemed like a man, and sometimes he had the countenance of an angel.".
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Re: Heresiology before 325 CE has been forged: NT Apocryphal literature is a Post-Nicene reaction to the NT Bible.

Post by Secret Alias »

And what do you surmise from that?
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