Nope.Giuseppe wrote: ↑Wed Dec 07, 2022 9:22 amHi Roger, I have not seen your post.RParvus wrote: ↑Wed Dec 07, 2022 12:16 am Giuseppe,
I’m surprised at you. You are thinking like those “on the outside” (Mk. 4:11) for whom Jesus was just a man, son of Mary. Stop thinking like those “standing outside” (Mk. 3:31). Jesus doesn’t have human mother, brothers, or sisters. You need to look at Proto-Mark like the Simonian insider riddle it was intended to be and you will figure out Jesus’ secret identity. And once you figure that out, you will know what those on the inside know about the pre-existence of the sower named “Hear!” (Mk. 4:3). The cryptic Markan “son of man” sayings can help you by pointing you in the right direction: “How is it that the scriptures say of the son of man that he is to endure great suffering and be treated with contempt?” (Mk. 9:12). Find that scripture about that mysterious son of man and you will be well on your way to insider status.
I know that a good argument has been made for the baptism in Mark being a late addition, but as Klaus Schilling says in the same thread:
A Mk without a baptism is not a Mk.
In addition, Mary and the entire family don't appear in Marcion, where the question "there is outside your family who wants to see you" is a lie designed to tempt Jesus, to make he recognize that he has a human family. Contra factum that in Marcion he has not one.
Mark's genius has been to introduce an entire family standing physically there outside, so transforming the lie in a true proposition. Contra Marcionem.
Thomas has them standing outside, which is the very reason why they should be rejected: everything that is not from our in the inside is wrong
of-inside ⲛϩⲟⲩⲛ Adjective 22, 89
of-outside ⲛⲃⲟⲗ Adjective 22, 40, 64, 89, 99
Logion 22 is the famous dual one
Logion 40:
40. IS said a vine of grape she was planted within the part of outside of the father and not made strong; she will be plucked out at her root and destroyed.
That doesn't need explanation, I hope
Logion 64:
those have you summon they to the Dinner did they Beg-off said the slaveowner to his slave : go to the part of-outside to the(PL) paths they-who you(SG) will fall to they bring they in-order-that they will make-be Dine the(PL) man-who buy with the(PL) traders they will go-inward not to the(PL) Place of my father
The paths - ALL paths - reside on the outside. Every path is wrong save the one that you follow via Thomas. The Seeker is desperate after having found out that his alleged friends are all strangers (to his cause) and now lashes out in anger and despair; even those who follow the paths are less bad than the buyers and the traders (he thinks). And the canonicals invent the money changer scene in the temple on this basis - or perhaps John 2:12-16 is the original here, which seems much more likely to me
Logion 89:
89. said IS : because-of who/at? you(PL) wash~ [dop] the part of-outside of the Cup you(PL) make-be Conceive not : he-who have create [dop] the part of-inside he also he-who have he create [dop] the part of-outside
And this is the most brilliant one of course: why wash the outside? Wash the inside in stead or as well, or don't wash at all
Logion 99:
99. said the(PL) Disciple to he : your(PL.SG) brothers with your(F.SG) mother they standing-on-foot they on the part of-outside said he to they : they-who of these place who/which make-be [dop] the desire of my father these-ones are my(PL) brothers with my(F) mother themselves is who/which will go-inward to the(F) reign-of(F) king of my father
Even if your closest relatives are standing on the outside: reject them. It is a simple message really, and perhaps *Ev didn't have it but it certainly doesn't come from Mark